Another newbie what guitar to get thread

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ernesto

Posts: 8
Joined: Feb. 25 2005

Another newbie what guitar to get thread

Hola!

I am new to this forum, and while I'm sure this question has been asked many times before, please bear with me. I'm getting back into guitar, largely inspired by friends in a local flamenco troupe. Long ago, I played lute and guitar with early music groups, and jazz and R & B in small local bands. Now I'm beginning my flamenco "journey" and finding that my nice little cedar-topped nylon string is a bit fragile. Any suggestions for a moderately (around $1,000 U.S.) priced guitar for a newer flamenco player?

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2005 13:44:55

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

The Yamaha flamenco can be had for about $300 and it's a heck of a little guitar. The price range of $400-2000 is pretty iffy, there's a lot of bad stuff out there. But there are some good ones too, and I'm sure some people will chip in.

I'm not sure if the good ones are any better than the Yamaha, though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2005 15:52:45

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

Check the Yahama. It is well built and does a good job.

My advice is to stay within your budget, get a good instrument and enjoy!

Some people will buy and sell guitars in hope to find the "holy grail". Man if I just had that guitar that is not in my collection I would be soooo happy!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2005 16:03:30

ernesto

Posts: 8
Joined: Feb. 25 2005

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

Miguel, Thomas:

Thanks for the quick responses. I've heard lots of good things about the Yamaha (and used to have a Yamaha steel-string myself), and not so good things about the Alhambras --- so it's good to get opinions from this forum. As for "collecting" guitars, I am trying to resist. I have one now and perhaps will add one more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2005 17:35:16

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

Personally, I've tried both the Yamaha CG-171F and Alhambra 7Fc. While the Alhambra costs about twice the price of the Yamaha where I stay, I must say that the Alhambra isn't too bad. Could anyone tell me exactly why I shouldn't waste my money on it?

And maybe someone could give me some recommendations on guitars around the Alhambra's price range? The Yamaha was undoubtedly very good in the range but I've tried a Manuel Rodriguez one at almost the same price. Both sounded almost the same. Can someone comment on that? I'd be (and so would ernesto, I think

) grateful if some people could give me some opinions.

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 2:18:30

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

I play Alhambra 7Fc. Listen to my videos and see what you think.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 5:29:39

Guest

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to Skai)

There's no reason for not buying a Alhambra 7fc flamenco if you like it, and theres no reason to buy a more expensive Alhambra flamenco guitar, because they do not get any better. Look out for one with a reasonably action above the soundboard. Sometimes they tend to be a little high.

I've sold some when I worked in a shop. And heres what I think:

Pro: Well build and strong, good resale value. OK volume and more or less flamenco sounding. solid woods. It is a flamenco guitar and not a classical with cypress backs and sides.

contra. A bit expensive for quality, poor quality Cypress, very thick nitro lacquer. Very neutral and clean sounding guitar without personality and therefor difficult to make it sound "dirty" or flamenco

To Henrik. You've complained some times about not sounding 'flamenco' enough. Your guitar is the answer. You can lower the strings etc and make it buzz some more, but it'll never open up like a good flamenco guitar. The construction is simply to conservative with quite thick soundboard and the lacquer is a sound killer. I think you should find another, better guitar, because this one will not let you evolve in playing. It'll not teach you the more suttle playing. Now you have such a high level of playing that you need something better. I would of course be glad to make you a guitar, but I do not write this in order to "catch" a client, but simply because thats what I think.

The thing with guitars and other instruments is that the cheap ones only have one sound. that might be pretty, but you'll be very limited and'll never develop a high level tecnique because the guitar'll never teach you that. You wont be able to hear nuance. The Alhambra is better than that, but still far from being an instrument with a lot of different character. A good flamenco guitar should IMHO have a deep percussive sound when you play soleá or similar things without a capo, and should bark, yell and scream when playing bulerías with capo at the third fret. The Alhambra kind of stays in the middle all the time.

So my final words are that the Alhambra and similar guitars are good enough to learn and reach a good intermediate level, but if you want to go further, and explore the musical world, the expression, the art and so on, you will need something better.

Well, i'm of to work.

Anders

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 7:45:08

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

Henrik, I've heard you and I've concluded that the 'flamenco' comes from your fingers and not from the guitar..

As for Alhambra's action, I've tried their lowest end flamenco guitar and whoa.. the action's higher than my classical. Thus, the Alhambra 3F is DEFINITELY out. The 7Fc I tried sounded and felt quite decent I must say.

I was proven wrong when I tried a Yamaha flamenco guitar from the concert guitar series (it costs about $5000 Singapore dollars, almost 4 times the 7Fc). The sound was crisp! Rasguedos were superbly chopped up and the guitar felt perfect. Nice, small and light, the action and neck was also such an ease to play. Now that guitar is certainly out of the question for me, it's too good and too expensive for me.

But I just have to say this, that Yamaha sounded as crunchy as an apple, even though it isn't 'Spanish'!!

Just another thought Anders, isn't it unavoidable that cheaper factory made guitars lack personality? So what would be a good factory guitar that has the most personality then?

Cheston

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 9:04:32

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to Guest)

Please make me a new guitar!!

Problem is i can´t pay for it

Thats my problem realy. I work ful time and theres no way i can save my money for a flamenco guitar. I´ll only end up buying another "middle" guitar cause that would be all i could afford.
So why not buy second hand guitar?? well. i live in sweden and there aren´t such a thing as second hand flamenco guitars. Theres not even new flamenco guitars. Unless i want alhambra.
sorry to complain but im realy fed up with my flamenco guitar situation.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 10:47:10

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to Guest)

hm..i got curious. How much do i have to pay for a guitar?? Blanka.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 10:49:24

Guest

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

Cheston

I cannot recommend any factory guitar with personality. Yes, but then it'll be something with the price of the Yamaha you mentioned. There IS a relation between price and quality. The cheapest guitars I know with personality are my own flamenca2A and Veleriano Bernal. Mine have the most for the price. Sorry, I know it sounds like cheapshit publicity, but I actually mean it. If you go for an Alhambra 7fc, make sure there's MAX 9mm between the soundboard and the 6th string. If there's more dont buy, if there's less, its one of the good ones. Ps, good observation on Henriks playing making the sound and not the guitar.

Henrik,
My cheapest guitar is 1300,- euros with a case. I know how the money situation is in Scandinavia, so I understand. Take it easy, one day you'll play another and better guitar. Besides, I'll send you a mail a bit later today.

Anders

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2005 11:16:56

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

I see Henrik's in flamenco desert too eh? I've got 2 shops here on this little island of Singapore which have more than one brand of flamenco guitars, beat that!

Well, I've got Admira flamenco here. Really unreliable though cheap, my previous one sounded like a classical but I just tried another one and it sounded flamenco. I did feel that my technique has improved all this while though. Alhambras here but they aren't very good as you guys have mentioned. I've tried Antonio Aparicio but someone told me that the only reason why it sounded flamenco was because of low action.

Maybe someone could help me see which brand off this Singapore site has the best flamenco guitar? http://www.tomas-music.com Something off the lower end since the cheapest one is just a few hundred dollars below my budget..

Lastly, is having a full solid guitar that important at my budget level? Should I get a cheap full solid or an expensive laminated back and sides one?

Cheston

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2005 2:15:18

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to Skai)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skai
Lastly, is having a full solid guitar that important at my budget level? Should I get a cheap full solid or an expensive laminated back and sides one?

You should get the one that sounds and plays the best, period.

If you are buying mail order and cannot play the guitar first, then I'm afraid you are in a lottery, because as I've said before, the consistency in quality is the main problem with factory guitars. One may be great of a particular model, the next not. If you read through posts on this forum and FT, that becomes immediately transparent.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2005 7:56:21

ernesto

Posts: 8
Joined: Feb. 25 2005

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

Thanks for all the comments. I know that the price of the guitar doesn't necessarily translate into quality --- I've successfully gigged (jazz and bossa nova) with an inexpensive Yamaha classical, and endured Early music concerts with (borrowed)horrible student wood-shop type lutes. But oddly enough, all of these excellent discussions are driving up my price-point for my first dedicated Flamenco guitar. One thing, there is a chance I may be lucky enough to work as a second guitarist for a Flamenco dance troupe, and I am wondering if the Yamaha would have enough volume or "bite" to cut through the dancing. Anders, your guitars sound intriguing --- particularly the model 2A. How much would it cost to ship to the U.S.?

Many thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 21:12:21

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Another newbie what guitar to ge... (in reply to ernesto)

To be honest, I'd just go straight for an Anders guitar if I can afford it. It would save me the trouble of buying the Yamaha, THEN another luthier guitar. Yamaha has good consistency, setup and a decent sound for it's price. But it is not exactly a good instrument if you compare it to more expensive guitars. You get what you pay for. That being said, Yamaha guitars seem to be built like tanks, trash them around and they'll still play for years.

Good luck on finding your guitar,
Cheston

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2005 1:55:49