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Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada
Cante Appreciation Thread
The idea for this just struck me while responding to a post. In the main, the membership of the foro is guitar-centric. It would be nice if we could encourage membership of more dancers and even a few cantaores, but that's neither here nor there.
I would like for our cante cognoscenti post the name of a piece of Flamenco music, the name of the cantaor, the letra, where we can find it (album or CD title/year) and maybe some liner notes, as to why we should listen to it, or how it's significant. I will be happy to assist by translating any letra, and I'm sure there are others who will also show willing.
For example, one of our members recently posted some famous letra, that most of us didn't know about called Clavito y Canela. Someone, somewhere, might suggest it's embarrassing that no one recognised an extremely famous bit of Flamenco letra. Being incredibly elitist and vain, such a suggestion would anger and shame me, so I think it's time some of us took to educating ourselves.
It would be a great start to this thread, if we could have a good recording of Clavito y Canela recommended, with the letra copied over here to the recommending post and maybe some more historical information and/or a review/bio of the cantaor.
To recap:
If you can contribute, please post
the name of the song (if it has one, if not, the palo)
the name of the cantaor
the name of (a) CD(s) where we can find this piece (track listing too, if it doesn't have a name)
the letra, at least in Spanish (if you can't translate it, someone will do it for you).
and extra info you might feel is important (e.g. a seminal work that...)
To fully appreciate a piece, we need to hear it and understand it. So we need the music and the letra.
Thanks for all the participation so far, and thanks in advance for any participation yet to come!
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
Hola
This seguiriyas was first recorded by Manuel Torre in 1909, accompanied by Juan Habichuela. Torre's recordings are available but not of great technical quality, so I would recommend the version by Tomás Pavón, whom many regard as one of the greatest singers of all time.
He only recorded twice, at the insistence of his sister, La Niña de los Peines, in 1928, with Niño Ricardo and in 1948, with Melchor de Marchena. "A clavito y canela" is from 1928, and it is said that Tomás spent a year listening to the Torre version before daring to record it.
The complete recordings of Tomás are also available, and since they form part of the repertoire of most modern singers, are well worth knowing. His Martinete and Debla are practically regarded as traditional.
Another seminal seguiriyas would be "De Santiago a Santa Ana", by another of the all time greats, Terremoto de Jerez.
(I have these recordings but I don't know how to upload audio )
This seguiriyas was first recorded by Manuel Torre in 1909, accompanied by Juan Habichuela. Torre's recordings are available but not of great technical quality, so I would recommend the version by Tomás Pavón, whom many regard as one of the greatest singers of all time.
He only recorded twice, at the insistence of his sister, La Niña de los Peines, in 1928, with Niño Ricardo and in 1948, with Melchor de Marchena. "A clavito y canela" is from 1928, and it is said that Tomás spent a year listening to the Torre version before daring to record it.
The complete recordings of Tomás are also available, and since they form part of the repertoire of most modern singers, are well worth knowing. His Martinete and Debla are practically regarded as traditional.
Another seminal seguiriyas would be "De Santiago a Santa Ana", by another of the all time greats, Terremoto de Jerez.
(I have these recordings but I don't know how to upload audio )
Sean
Thank you Sean. Very helpful and informative.
Here are the letra to the song A Clavito y Canela:
quote:
De clavito y canela Hueles tu a mi El que no huele a clavito y canela no sabe a distinguir
In English:
quote:
Of (sweet) cloves and cinnamon You smell to me He/One who doesn't smell of cloves and cinnamon Doesn't know how to distinguish/discern
I wouldn't worry about posting the audio, we don't want to risk the foro with copyright issues.
If you search eMule/eDonkey (not that you should), for "calvito y canela" Tomás Pavón shows up among the top mp3s. So it should be easy to obtain.
It's also on CD3 of Antologia del Cante Flamenco listed simply as Track #5 - Tomás Pavón - Cante Grande Por Seguiriyas. It's also on CD 09, track #2 by Antonio Chacón, called A Clavito Y A Canela (Seguidilla).
I cannot find the letra for Terremoto de Jerez's De Santiago a Santa Ana.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Exitao
It would be nice if we could encourage membership of more dancers and even a few cantaores, but that's neither here nor there.
What i would really appreciate and like would be to have a Cantaor here to play along with and virtually practice with. I mean something like the "Group Bulerias" thing we did. He could record his singing a long with a Compas track or even without and send a copy to all guitar players here and everyone could try to accompany hin and send him back the recording (now including guitar) and he could give advice or say what he liked and what he didnt like and we could improve.
That would be great for those who dont have a chance to play with a Cantaor in "Real"
Another seminal seguiriyas would be "De Santiago a Santa Ana", by another of the all time greats, Terremoto de Jerez.
(I have these recordings but I don't know how to upload audio )
Sean
The letra:
quote:
ahora sí que te llamo con duquelas dobles que yo me veo solito en la calle sin calor de nadie
porque me dice a mi la gente que esto eran dos dias señalaitos de Santiago y Santa Ana yo le rogué a mi Dios que me aliviara estas duquelas que tiene mi mare de mi alma y de mi corazón
In English:
quote:
Now if I call you With double the sorrow That I see myself alone in the street Without warmth from anyone
Because it says to me, the people <something about being during the celebration of Santiago's and St. Ana's days> I prayed to God That he would ease the sorrows That my mother has for of soul And of my heart.
This translation is not very good, but I'm tired and it's not making sense to me. Some come up and correct me please.
This seguiriyas was first recorded by Manuel Torre in 1909, accompanied by Juan Habichuela. Torre's recordings are available but not of great technical quality, so I would recommend the version by Tomás Pavón, whom many regard as one of the greatest singers of all time.
He only recorded twice, at the insistence of his sister, La Niña de los Peines, in 1928, with Niño Ricardo and in 1948, with Melchor de Marchena. "A clavito y canela" is from 1928, and it is said that Tomás spent a year listening to the Torre version before daring to record it.
The complete recordings of Tomás are also available, and since they form part of the repertoire of most modern singers, are well worth knowing. His Martinete and Debla are practically regarded as traditional.
Another seminal seguiriyas would be "De Santiago a Santa Ana", by another of the all time greats, Terremoto de Jerez.
(I have these recordings but I don't know how to upload audio )
Sean
I also recommend the versions by Chacon, 1913 and 1927. With Ramon Montoya.
Pepe de lucia sang it with Paco (Chiquitos de Algeciras 1962) and called it "siguiriyas de Chacon". That is a special recording too.
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
Another very fine version of De Santiago y Santa Ana is Manolo Caracol with Melchor de Marchena. It's as good as Terremoto's IMHO; Caracol was a very variable singer--but when he was good, he was very, very, very good..... I think he probably could sing, when he was involved enough, just about anything as well as it could be sung, with real emotional force, unlike, say, Antonio Mairena. Mairena's knowledge appeared to have been encyclopedic, but he rarely struck me as being fully involved emotionally with his cante.
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to runner)
quote:
Another very fine version of De Santiago y Santa Ana is Manolo Caracol with Melchor de Marchena. It's as good as Terremoto's IMHO; Caracol was a very variable singer--but when he was good, he was very, very, very good..... I think he probably could sing, when he was involved enough, just about anything as well as it could be sung, with real emotional force, unlike, say, Antonio Mairena. Mairena's knowledge appeared to have been encyclopedic, but he rarely struck me as being fully involved emotionally with his cante.
runner
I totally agree. Caracols version is VERY good and easy to find. I like his voice a lot and the CD "Grandes cantaores" is full of very high quality recordings including some fantastic fandangos naturales. Another of his master palos.
Morente has a nice version of Santiago y Santa Ana on the CD: Homenage to Chacon.. (With Pepe Habichuela. what a joy)
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
Jacinto's "Desgraciaito el que come....." letra, with very slightly different wording, is referenced as being from an Agujetas martinete by Christof Jung. Jung, however, does not provide a source recording where it can be found, but says he heard Agujetas sing it live in Jerez. As quoted in Flamenco: Gypsy Dance and Music from Andalusia. There are many letras quoted in this book; also in Pohren's The Art of Flamenco and in his Lives and Legends of Flamenco.
Anders, if you are an aficionado of fandangos (as am I), you must somehow get your hands on the old Decca LP Danzas Flamencas, 1954, DL 9758. This, IMO, is one of the greatest flamenco recordings of all time--cante by Rafael Romero, Manolita de Jerez, and an unidentified singer (por siguiriyas), baile by José Greco, and toque by an unidentified guitarist, thought to have been Manuel García. Just about everything on this disk is superb, but Manolita de Jerez sings a fandango grande that will curl your toes. As I've said many times, it is an ongoing crime that this wonderful recording has never been re-released on CD.
"De Santiago y Santana " "belonged to" Manuel Torre. It was a cante he was very famous for. Cds of him that have this are available
What do you want to say with this? Dont find it acceptable to listen and to like versions by other cantaores?
LOL
Maybe he does in the same way people don't like Elvis covers. The guy always recorded songs other people wrote, but once he did them, they were his. You think people would be agreeable to Harry Connick Jr. covering Fools Rush In?
It's silly, but everyone has an opinion.
Message to the contributors:
Thanks for the contributions folk. Its appreciated.
If I may, just remind people that it's ideal if we have a way to find a recording of a piece so please try to confine yourselves to songs that you can gives us a good idea where to find. If we can experience the music/cante with the letra, we can better appreciate the cante (and some people need help).
Without the means to find the music, this would become a Letra Appreciation Thread. Which is a very good idea, but this thread already has a title.
Ahem. Thank you. Please return to your regular posting activities.
Posts: 1812
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
quote:
ahora sí que te llamo con duquelas dobles que yo me veo solito en la calle sin calor de nadie
porque me dice a mi la gente que esto eran dos dias señalaitos de Santiago y Santa Ana yo le rogué a mi Dios que me aliviara estas duquelas que tiene mi mare de mi alma y de mi corazón
In English:
<...>
This translation is not very good, but I'm tired and it's not making sense to me. Some come up and correct me please.
OK, since no Spaniards have responded, I’ll have a go:
Now, yes, I call you With double sorrow Since I find myself alone in the street Without the warmth of anyone
Because people tell me That these are the feast days of St James and St Anne, And I prayed to my God That he would ease for me the suffering of my mother, whom I love with my heart and soul.
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
One song everyone ought to listen to is "El espejo en que te miras" by Camarón and Paco on Son tus ojos dos estrellas. This recording is considered on of the best from the Camarón/Paco era, it's very famous and is also one of my favorites! One of the reasons is because it is a Soleá apolá, a palo not song very often and also because I love the lyrics! I also really like the emotional power with which Camarón sings the last letra, if ever there was a perfect cantaor it was him! I also believe Marina Heredia sings the first letra on her latest album.
here are the original lyrics:
El espejo donde te miras Te dira como tu eres Pero nunca te dira Los pensamientos que tienes.
Si tu mal no tiene cura Yo le estoy pidiendo a Dios Que en la misma sepultura Nos entierren a los dos.
Gitana enciende la luz Que tengo una borrachera Que a Undibel le hablo de tu.
and here's my translation:
The mirror into which you gaze will tell you how you look but it can never tell you what thoughts you have
If your ills have no cure then I will plead with God that in the same sepulchre they'll bury us both
Gitana, turn on the light as I am drunk and I have spoken of you to a spirit/devil
For those of you that don't have it you can find it here:
Cante is still an alien beast for me. As much as i enjoy the accompaniment of it, there is still a barrier (not always, but often) in enjoying the cante. In other types of singing this barrier doesnt exist and i can be moved very easily actually. I think its partly because i dont understand the spanish lyrics and partly because it doesnt appeal to my asthetics how beautiful singing should sound like (again, not always but often). No wonder im attracted by the more light or pop singing in buleriasses, tangos and soleas. And i love "choruses" in flamenco compositions
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to runner)
this is the letra of Manuel Soto's Soleá por bulería:
y que no se las llevaba el viento y que no se las lleva el viento mis palabras son tan firmes compañerita mía como los diez mandamientos
y por qué no le damos tregua al tiempo? vamos a darle tiempo al tiempo ya verás de qué manera compañerita mía tú sin mí sales perdiendo
y Dios va a mandarte a ti un castigo muy grande y eso es porque tú te lo mereces porque me vienes culpando y yo culpa no tengo que de ti hablara la gente
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to Exitao)
This is a funny letra refering to the stereotype of the gypsy as a chicken thief : "una gallinita en medio de un llano a ver quien se resiste siendo gitano"
I hear it in the Diego del morao cd. The track with D. Carrasco. Also in the album "alado bronce" 1st track. Jose de la tomasa with P. Bacan And in this vid: 2:15 to 2:30.
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to PabloMadera)
Those are some of my favorite soleás, too. Camarón did a really good job there. Paco de Lucía's father had a lot to do with the quality in those early recordings, but Camarón later sang some very interesting soleás. One in particular is on video with Tomatito: The second letra is "Amarillo y con ojeras."
quote:
Gitana enciende la luz Que tengo una borrachera Que a Undibel le hablo de tu.
Gitana, turn on the light as I am drunk and I have spoken of you to a spirit/devil
"Le hablo de tú" means "I speak to him/her/it using the 'tú' form of address." So, presumably, the letra is about a guy who's gone to bed but has to ask his wife to turn on the light because he's so drunk that he's speaking informally to Undebel. "Le hablo de ti" ('ti' instead of 'tú') would be "I speak to him/her/it about you."
RE: Cante Appreciation Thread (in reply to NormanKliman)
Montse Cortés 'Lloran al lado mío' Solea
The letra are from the studio version on La Rosa Blanca. Here is a live version.
si los huesos me crujieran como crujen los piñones como crujen los piñones ay como crujen los piñones
no me dolerían tanto como tus malas acciones no me dolerían tanto como tus malas acciones
ay quisiera ser la sangre que te recorre por dentro que a ti te recorre por dentro que te recorre por dentro
y para saber lo que tu tiene ay metido en el pensamiento para saber lo que tu tiene metido en el pensamiento
ni me mires ni me hables ay ay que ni delante de la gente ay no me pongas mal semblante ay que ni delante que de la gente no me pongas mal semblante
creí que se bebían las lagrimas creí que se bebían que cuando vi que se mascaban grandes duquelas tendría que cuando vi que se mascaban grandes duquelas tendría
ay sale el sol ay amarillo sale el sol manifestando las ducas que tengo en mi corazón ay manifestando las ducas las ducas que tengo dentro de mi corazón
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