Manitas de Plata y los Plateros

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El Norte

Posts: 21
Joined: Dec. 6 2010

Manitas de Plata y los Plateros

I have this old vinyl album from the 70's featuring Manitas de Plata and various members of the Reyes clan. The music is not of virtuoso calibre, but earthy and very gitano. I have long felt this was a kind of prototype of The Gypsy Kings.
Any other opinions?

Go easy on my first post!

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I love to hear flamenco, and wish I could play it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 4:27:38

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

quote:

The music is not of virtuoso calibre, but earthy and very gitano.

I would agree, El Norte...Manitas de Plata does have a good "gitano" tone on a lot of stuff.
But remember, this is NOT Flamenco.

It is a mixture of the music of the Camargue/Catalan area, along with some quasi-Flamenco and his own particular inventions chucked in.

This stuff may be quite interesting and entertaining to listen to, but it is useless to learn from, or pick up any material from if you are studying actual Flamenco as it is played in Andalucia.

quote:

I have long felt this was a kind of prototype of The Gypsy Kings.

Yes, the Gypsy Kings are all related to the Baliardo/Reyes families. They are French Gitanos from the same region and cultural melting pot.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 8:18:22

El Norte

Posts: 21
Joined: Dec. 6 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

Thank you Ron for your insights.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 13:23:11

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Ron.M)

As usual, Ron is right on the money.

I'll never forget Paco Peña's face when I told him that Melody Maker had reviewed his first LP and called him "a brilliant young guitarist in the Manitas de Plata class".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 16:38:21

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

quote:

I'll never forget Paco Peña's face when I told him that Melody Maker had reviewed his first LP and called him "a brilliant young guitarist in the Manitas de Plata class".

taht's hilarious

LOL

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 20:35:01

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

I'll never forget Paco Peña's face when I told him that Melody Maker had reviewed his first LP and called him "a brilliant young guitarist in the Manitas de Plata class".

Hehehehe

I would like to see that face.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 21:37:19

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

Manitas de Plata vinyl records make really great skeet shooting targets.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2010 22:25:17

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

Here a nice Buleria from Nanasso Balliardo
Nice Alzapua on 3.12

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2010 0:07:05

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Here a nice Buleria from Nanasso Balliardo
Nice Alzapua on 3.12

I agree! Nothing fakemenco about that. Nice thumb work and interpretation of buleria from that era.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2010 3:11:47

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

Which wood is that guitar?? Cedar?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2010 18:35:40

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

This stuff may be quite interesting and entertaining to listen to, but it is useless to learn from, or pick up any material from if you are studying actual Flamenco as it is played in Andalucia.

Not Manitas please . this guy hits on my nerve

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2010 18:41:09

El Norte

Posts: 21
Joined: Dec. 6 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

I didn't realize that Manitas would elicit such a reaction on this forum.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2010 1:58:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

quote:

I didn't realize that Manitas would elicit such a reaction on this forum.

I'm interested to know what you expected the reaction to be, El Norte?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2010 18:16:59

El Norte

Posts: 21
Joined: Dec. 6 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

I'm interested to know what you expected the reaction to be, El Norte?

cheers,

Ron

Manitas is one of those artists who helped popularize at least a somewhat flamenco-sounding music. Because of him, I began to eventually listen to Sabicas, Montoya, Juan Serrano, and later Paco de Lucia and Tomatito.

I just thought the folks here would give Manitas a little credit...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2010 20:21:54

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

quote:

I just thought the folks here would give Manitas a little credit...

man I'm sorry .. I'm just saying my opinion
I got his album "Flamenco on Fire" and ouch

it was the worst album I've ever heard , actually I threw it in the trash the next day to be honest ~ no kidding

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2010 20:39:45

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

quote:

Manitas is one of those artists who helped popularize at least a somewhat flamenco-sounding music.

Yeah, but so did Jose Feliciano, Benise, Esteban and The Otter...

So are you saying that they should somehow be respected in serious Flamenco circles for selling basically Flamenco-sounding, seriously Non-Flamenco rubbish to the masses?

It's a bit like George Harrison being revered in serious Classical Indian Music circles for introducing the sitar to the West by playing non Indian pop-rubbish on the sitar to stoned hippies.

I DO have a certain fondness for Manitas, 'cos he definitely had something and his managers and promoters made a lot of money out of selling that in any way they could.

But he was NO Flamenco player.

He was announced on the BBC NEWS for heaven's sake, back in the early 60's as the most talented virtuoso guitarist in the world ever... only discovered accidentally by a French photographer who found him living in a peasant caravan in the Camargue and completely unknown.

A sensational story indeed.

No BBC journalist at the time even made the effort to investigate Flamenco or the likes of Manuel Morao or Niño Ricardo etc, but just went along with it, highlighting the fact that he was now a personal friend of Pablo Picasso and Brigette Bardot etc..

He was thus marketed that way to a naive public and went round totally misrepresenting true Flamenco music and culture to the world all the way.

A French gypsy who didn't play Flamenco or even speak Spanish thus became the World icon of Andalucian Flamenco...

Crazy.

So the response of serious Flamenco students to highly commercial Non Flamenco rubbish on a serious Flamenco Website is hardly likely to be good.

Is it now?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2010 21:18:03

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

He was thus marketed that way to a naive public, totally misrepresenting true Flamenco music and culture to the world all the way.

And then came the gypsy kings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2010 21:23:46

El Norte

Posts: 21
Joined: Dec. 6 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

So are you saying that they should somehow be respected in serious Flamenco circles for selling basically Flamenco-sounding, seriously Non-Flamenco rubbish to the masses

No. I am just saying he helped break through in his own way. No more, no less. Artists in many disciplines suddenly become targets when they have commercial success...

By the way I do enjoy "flamenco puro".

Respectfully yours,
El Norte

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2010 21:45:00

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

I'm not putting you down, or discrediting or disrespecting you here, El Norte..

Just possibly explaining the reaction here on the opinion of Manitas.

No sweat... Relax amigo.... Life's short.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2010 22:07:14

Fabricio_Gomez

Posts: 7
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 30 2010 15:42:26

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 8:46:03

Chilli Fingers

Posts: 79
Joined: Sep. 21 2010

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Fabricio_Gomez)

If we compared flamenco guitarists with food, paco would be crayfish with a truffle sauce. Manitas would be a tin of spam.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 9:06:51

Fabricio_Gomez

Posts: 7
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 30 2010 15:41:16

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 9:15:12

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to El Norte)

At least we dont share any Manitas tabs

so, dont worry!!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 9:18:27

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

Which wood is that guitar?? Cedar?

I think its just "wood".

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 9:33:38

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

[Awaiting Approval]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 17:07:48

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (in reply to Fabricio_Gomez)

quote:

There is a majority of people on this forum who see themselves

quote:

There are some members on this forum who know better though

i hate these kind of vague and veiled accusations, noone actually know who you are accusing and what of exactly

the bottom line, for me, is that some years ago i bought Manitas lp in a second hand shop. at the time i was learning to play for dancers. the bulerias (and other a compas forms) were all out of compas. if you play out of compas bulerias (or solea, alegrias etc.) dancers don't like it, because they can't dance to it. i didn't want to be influenced by this random compas stuff, i binned the lp.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2010 20:43:02