Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Full Version)

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El Norte -> Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 4:27:38)

I have this old vinyl album from the 70's featuring Manitas de Plata and various members of the Reyes clan. The music is not of virtuoso calibre, but earthy and very gitano. I have long felt this was a kind of prototype of The Gypsy Kings.
Any other opinions?

Go easy on my first post!



Ron.M -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 8:18:22)

quote:

The music is not of virtuoso calibre, but earthy and very gitano.


I would agree, El Norte...Manitas de Plata does have a good "gitano" tone on a lot of stuff.
But remember, this is NOT Flamenco.

It is a mixture of the music of the Camargue/Catalan area, along with some quasi-Flamenco and his own particular inventions chucked in.

This stuff may be quite interesting and entertaining to listen to, but it is useless to learn from, or pick up any material from if you are studying actual Flamenco as it is played in Andalucia.

quote:



I have long felt this was a kind of prototype of The Gypsy Kings.


Yes, the Gypsy Kings are all related to the Baliardo/Reyes families. They are French Gitanos from the same region and cultural melting pot.

cheers,

Ron



El Norte -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 13:23:11)

Thank you Ron for your insights.



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 16:38:21)

As usual, Ron is right on the money.

I'll never forget Paco Peña's face when I told him that Melody Maker had reviewed his first LP and called him "a brilliant young guitarist in the Manitas de Plata class".



beno -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 20:35:01)

quote:

I'll never forget Paco Peña's face when I told him that Melody Maker had reviewed his first LP and called him "a brilliant young guitarist in the Manitas de Plata class".


taht's hilarious [:D] [:D] [:D]
LOL



Doitsujin -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 21:37:19)

quote:

I'll never forget Paco Peña's face when I told him that Melody Maker had reviewed his first LP and called him "a brilliant young guitarist in the Manitas de Plata class".


Hehehehe [:D][:D][:D] I would like to see that face.



Patrick -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 6 2010 22:25:17)

Manitas de Plata vinyl records make really great skeet shooting targets. [:D]



gerundino63 -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 7 2010 0:07:05)

Here a nice Buleria from Nanasso Balliardo
Nice Alzapua on 3.12




KMMI77 -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 7 2010 3:11:47)

quote:

Here a nice Buleria from Nanasso Balliardo
Nice Alzapua on 3.12


I agree! Nothing fakemenco about that. Nice thumb work and interpretation of buleria from that era.



Doitsujin -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 7 2010 18:35:40)

Which wood is that guitar?? Cedar?



Elie -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 7 2010 18:41:09)

quote:

This stuff may be quite interesting and entertaining to listen to, but it is useless to learn from, or pick up any material from if you are studying actual Flamenco as it is played in Andalucia.

[:'(][&o] Not Manitas please . this guy hits on my nerve



El Norte -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 10 2010 1:58:51)

I didn't realize that Manitas would elicit such a reaction on this forum.[&:]



Ron.M -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 10 2010 18:16:59)

quote:

I didn't realize that Manitas would elicit such a reaction on this forum.


I'm interested to know what you expected the reaction to be, El Norte?

cheers,

Ron



El Norte -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 11 2010 20:21:54)

quote:


I'm interested to know what you expected the reaction to be, El Norte?

cheers,

Ron


Manitas is one of those artists who helped popularize at least a somewhat flamenco-sounding music. Because of him, I began to eventually listen to Sabicas, Montoya, Juan Serrano, and later Paco de Lucia and Tomatito.

I just thought the folks here would give Manitas a little credit...



Elie -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 11 2010 20:39:45)

quote:

I just thought the folks here would give Manitas a little credit...

man I'm sorry .. I'm just saying my opinion
I got his album "Flamenco on Fire" and ouch [:@] it was the worst album I've ever heard , actually I threw it in the trash the next day to be honest ~ no kidding



Ron.M -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 11 2010 21:18:03)

quote:

Manitas is one of those artists who helped popularize at least a somewhat flamenco-sounding music.


Yeah, but so did Jose Feliciano, Benise, Esteban and The Otter...

So are you saying that they should somehow be respected in serious Flamenco circles for selling basically Flamenco-sounding, seriously Non-Flamenco rubbish to the masses?

It's a bit like George Harrison being revered in serious Classical Indian Music circles for introducing the sitar to the West by playing non Indian pop-rubbish on the sitar to stoned hippies.

I DO have a certain fondness for Manitas, 'cos he definitely had something and his managers and promoters made a lot of money out of selling that in any way they could.

But he was NO Flamenco player.

He was announced on the BBC NEWS for heaven's sake, back in the early 60's as the most talented virtuoso guitarist in the world ever... only discovered accidentally by a French photographer who found him living in a peasant caravan in the Camargue and completely unknown.

A sensational story indeed.

No BBC journalist at the time even made the effort to investigate Flamenco or the likes of Manuel Morao or Niño Ricardo etc, but just went along with it, highlighting the fact that he was now a personal friend of Pablo Picasso and Brigette Bardot etc..

He was thus marketed that way to a naive public and went round totally misrepresenting true Flamenco music and culture to the world all the way.

A French gypsy who didn't play Flamenco or even speak Spanish thus became the World icon of Andalucian Flamenco...

Crazy.

So the response of serious Flamenco students to highly commercial Non Flamenco rubbish on a serious Flamenco Website is hardly likely to be good.

Is it now?[:D]

cheers,

Ron



Ricardo -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 11 2010 21:23:46)

quote:

He was thus marketed that way to a naive public, totally misrepresenting true Flamenco music and culture to the world all the way.


And then came the gypsy kings.[;)][:D]



El Norte -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 11 2010 21:45:00)

quote:


So are you saying that they should somehow be respected in serious Flamenco circles for selling basically Flamenco-sounding, seriously Non-Flamenco rubbish to the masses


No. I am just saying he helped break through in his own way. No more, no less. Artists in many disciplines suddenly become targets when they have commercial success...

By the way I do enjoy "flamenco puro".

Respectfully yours,
El Norte



Ron.M -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 11 2010 22:07:14)

I'm not putting you down, or discrediting or disrespecting you here, El Norte..

Just possibly explaining the reaction here on the opinion of Manitas. [;)]

No sweat... Relax amigo.... Life's short. [:D]

cheers,

Ron



Fabricio_Gomez -> [Deleted] (Dec. 12 2010 8:46:03)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 30 2010 15:42:26



Chilli Fingers -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 12 2010 9:06:51)

If we compared flamenco guitarists with food, paco would be crayfish with a truffle sauce. Manitas would be a tin of spam.



Fabricio_Gomez -> [Deleted] (Dec. 12 2010 9:15:12)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 30 2010 15:41:16



XXX -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 12 2010 9:18:27)

At least we dont share any Manitas tabs [:D][:D][:D] so, dont worry!!



XXX -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 12 2010 9:33:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

Which wood is that guitar?? Cedar?


I think its just "wood".



[Awaiting Approval]

[Awaiting Approval]



mark indigo -> RE: Manitas de Plata y los Plateros (Dec. 12 2010 20:43:02)

quote:

There is a majority of people on this forum who see themselves
quote:

There are some members on this forum who know better though


i hate these kind of vague and veiled accusations, noone actually know who you are accusing and what of exactly

the bottom line, for me, is that some years ago i bought Manitas lp in a second hand shop. at the time i was learning to play for dancers. the bulerias (and other a compas forms) were all out of compas. if you play out of compas bulerias (or solea, alegrias etc.) dancers don't like it, because they can't dance to it. i didn't want to be influenced by this random compas stuff, i binned the lp.



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