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Question. This acknowledgement is just one of many awards and tributes to your career. Do all awards give you the same sense of satisfaction, or does that perception change when you get older?
Answer. The sense of satisfaction doesn’t change when you get older. What might change that is the award itself. It doesn’t mean much when the person giving you the award just wants to show off. But other awards, like this one, are important. And you’ll never hear me saying that awards are important because for me they’re always a drag... You have to travel, and in this case I’m going to have to wear one of those caps with the tassel, which makes me feel kind of ridiculous... Aside from that, I don’t like it when people compliment me. It's always made me feel uncomfortable. But flamenco is the one thing that will get me off the couch and out of my house. That’s why I’m here. Because flamenco has always been mistreated. In our country, flamenco has never been taken seriously, and now this university, considered to be the best in the world for music, has acknowledged its importance.
Q. You once said that you preferred not to go the US, after going there the first time when you were a teenager.
A. The problem is the way they treat you. The police are very aggressive now. It was different when I went there in the late 1960s. Or maybe I was different back then. When I got there, I was very enthusiastic and I wanted to see for myself what things were like, but now it seems to me that the US used to be a better country. There was a greater sense of restlessness, of idealism...
Q. What’s changed in you now that you’re older?
A. There are a lot of things that I don’t feel like doing anymore.
Q. What do you mean?
A. When you get old, it’s not just that you have less energy. Things aren’t as exciting as they were when you were 20: things like your interest in gaining recognition and in being loved, which are really what all artists are after. Once you’ve achieved those things, you stop chasing after them, and that was the source of your motivation when you were younger. I’ve still got that energy when I go onstage, but not for all the other things.
Q. Aside from awards, what does success mean to you?
A. Playing well and, within the tradition that I come from, creating a path for the acceptance of my music and for its possible influence on others, so that other professionals can copy my music. It’s nice to make money and to hear people call you “maestro,” but real success is when you’re acknowledged by your peers.
Q. Is life without music a possibility?
A. I would love that because music makes me suffer; because of the responsibility. I would love to be part of the audience. I’d listen to music all day long. But, because I’m in the spotlight and I’m always onstage, the perfectionist in me gives me more suffering than satisfaction. I’d love to be able to live without music. I’d be very happy.
Q. Aren’t you happy?
A. I still have the same obsessions after all these years. Whether or not I really like what I’m doing, whether or not it’s all worth it, whether or not people are foolish or maybe I’m the one who’s fooling them... I know it’s an obsession that isn’t based on anything real, but it’s in my head.
Q. Doesn’t it fade over the years?
A. Are you kidding? It’s funny because when I was 20 I always used to think how great it would be to be 50, because then I’d be able to enjoy what I do. At the time it was very hard to deal with, but now it’s worse.
Q. Why?
A. I don’t know. It’s a sense of harsh criticism of myself, and I think it comes from my father. He always used to say, “That’s rubbish. You don’t know. You have to keep learning, you have to keep playing.” Maybe that’s the reason.
Q. Have you ever considered giving up the guitar?
A. Many times.
Q. Why do you keep playing?
A. Because one day, even if you’re sick of the guitar, you go onstage and things happen that you can’t explain. They call it inspiration or duende. You start playing, you feel everything flowing, something starts to gather in the air and nothing else will give you that kind of stimulation. No drug or sensation can compare to that, and once you’ve experienced it, there’s no way of giving it up.
Q. Have you ever been afraid of failure at any point in your career?
A. No. That’s very important. You should never worry about whether or not you’re going to make it, whether or not you’re going to become rich or famous. You have to play for your own enjoyment, because a musician can be the happiest person on earth with food in the pot and a bed to sleep on. Music itself is what’s going to make you happy. You’ll feel like a hero even though you’re broke. Stay home and work hard. Be disciplined and enjoy what you do. That’s the only way to make it, to make money and to become famous.
Q. You’re working on a new recording. What’s the challenge for someone like you whose recordings are so legendary?
A. The most important thing for me when I take on a new project is to create surprises. That’s what I look for: to go where nobody’s gone before in order to surprise the one who’s listening to me. It’s very difficult, because we all go to the same old places. The only way I can surprise others is to surprise myself. It’s not easy.
Q. What’s left for you to do?
A. Well, everything! The only thing I’ve done in life is to play the guitar. A very poor life; just imagine!
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
Yes, I got the same feeling. I wonder if feelings may be conveyed differently through translation, but Paco sounds quite sad in this interview. I almost feel guilty for revering him so.
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
Thanks Norman for the translation.
---
quote:
ORIGINAL: NormanKliman
Q. You’re working on a new recording. What’s the challenge for someone like you whose recordings are so legendary?
A. The most important thing for me when I take on a new project is to create surprises. That’s what I look for: to go where nobody’s gone before in order to surprise the one who’s listening to me. It’s very difficult, because we all go to the same old places. The only way I can surprise others is to surprise myself. It’s not easy.
hmm...... i am curious. i hope its not a surprise with too much orchestra, etc. i liked "surprises" like Cositas Buenas or Aguadulce from Tomatito.
don't know, but what i would like to hear from paco are "wise and old" kind of compositions. don't know how to explain it better. something like with fewer notes, but each note played with lot of emotion and "experience". not that he is not able to play technically very difficult stuff anymore (we have seen it in the recent concerts that he still can), but maybe after so many years and because of his age, he even has gained something totally new ! which you only can achieve if you are at that age and if you have played guitar your whole life?!
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Guest)
quote:
According to Paco, Berklee is the best school of music in the world. Is this true??
Maybe as far as Paco is concerned. The focus of the school has always been on practioners—people who could “play.” Grade school music teacher wannabees and musicologists need not apply. Berklee was highly respected among jazz musicians and still is.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Guest)
Thanks for the link.
quote:
I don't know if pessimistic is the right word. Like he says in the interview, it's the responsibility he feels he owes to the genre. The guy has given so much of his life to the guitar. And he has always known it. I recall an interview from the 70's where he says that "la guitarra me ha quitado media vida"; meaning the guitar has taken half his life. Kind of like he sold his soul to the devil in exchange for being able to play the way he does. But imagine how he feels now, after having played for sooo many years... He is tired.
Absolutely. I don't think it's pessimistic for me it sound like a natural feeling. Ask someone if he's not tired of his job after a lifetime spent worked in the same trade.
there is an interview on youtube where he says that when he plays the guitar "me duele hasta aqui" showing his teeth
People do not imagine how many sacrifices he had to do to reach his level. What he said about his father is very interesting. He was tyrannical with him. His youth was stolen...
quote:
The only thing I’ve done in life is to play the guitar. A very poor life; just imagine!
JUST IMAGINE man! just imagine!!
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Elie)
One could look at this thing and say jeeez what is he complaining about, he is the best, and very successful, and got it all and is a living legend etc. So why complain? I think it is very simple, he is at the top, number 1, and doesn't want to be. I think he had hoped by now someone had taken over, as happened to Niño Ricardo and Sabicas, so he could ENJOY playing his same old stuff with no pressures. But now he finds himself rubbing elbows with the youth, still leading THEM somehow. He is just too competative IMO. His feeling that he always needs to present "new surprises" is the main problem, and also the reason he stays on top as a leader.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
One could look at this thing and say jeeez what is he complaining about, he is the best, and very successful, and got it all and is a living legend etc. So why complain? I think it is very simple, he is at the top, number 1, and doesn't want to be. I think he had hoped by now someone had taken over, as happened to Niño Ricardo and Sabicas, so he could ENJOY playing his same old stuff with no pressures. But now he finds himself rubbing elbows with the youth, still leading THEM somehow. He is just too competative IMO. His feeling that he always needs to present "new surprises" is the main problem, and also the reason he stays on top as a leader.
Or he was just out of weed the day of the interview.
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to mezzo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mezzo
What he said about his father is very interesting. He was tyrannical with him. His youth was stolen...
i have an anda magazine here with an interview from 2008. here is a little interesting part :
- Your father took you out of school and decided that you should play guitar ?
+ Yes , that was his decicion and i am thankful for it.
- Does that mean that sometimes you have to force your children to their fortune?
+ thats exactly what i mean. i know one could discuss about it, if this is dictatorship or something like that, but if you wait until your child is able to make his own decisions, then often its too late ! then you have missed the train !
...
then he complains about todays parents and that they are too liberal, but he mentions that he is liberal too
---
another interesting part:
- you seam to be a balanced person.
+ unfortunately, thats what many people think about me. But i am the incarnated unbalanced person. One second i am the happiest man alive, next second i am the unhappiest. I have to protect myself from this part of my character.
....
anyway, if interested, i can translate the whole interview
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Arash)
quote:
One could look at this thing and say jeeez what is he complaining about, he is the best, and very successful, and got it all and is a living legend etc. So why complain?
At his stage in life, all he probably wants to do now is go fishing and everybody leave him alone. But that's the price you pay for being a genius.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
Kind of reminds me of the late great saxophonist Michael Brecker. He played so much that he burnt himself out, but he had to keep playing because he was the best.
As for Berklee, it's a great school with great teachers, but from what i hear, they only care about the few musicians that are exceptional. For the rest of us normal people, they gladly take our money. I think there are many less prestigious schools that are just as good.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
the perfectionist in me gives me more suffering than satisfaction.
I think that's the line that sums up the whole interview. Paco also has and will be a perfectionist. If that were not in him he could never have become what he is today. The perfectionist in him seeks the highs when you reach those moments of pure beauty and at the same time leads to such frustration on the days when it doesnt work out. I agree with Ricardos comment, normally guys on the top of their profession be it athletes, chess players, academics etc. get overtaken in their careers by the younger generation but Paco is at 63 years old still taking flamenco to new places....an amazing life long achievement.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Pimientito)
I agree, Mark. He always strikes me as someone who's "being eaten by his own brain." Weird metaphors aside, I think what you and Ricardo have pointed out is one sign of his genius. All of the greatest of flamenco's greats have consolidated what came before them, In this sense, Paco is unique because he was able to draw on Montoya, Ricardo, Sabicas and others, and put them together with skills that nobody else had at the time (and has managed to dodge the perils along the way). Perfectionism seems to be one of his identifying characteristics, as is what he often mentions about fighting for flamenco's honor. Those aren't his words, but I think it's what he and others meant when they said that he plays with "rabia": indignant because of certain people who look down on flamenco. Because of these two characteristics, I don't think we're ever going to hear anything from Paco like what Arash is suggesting, although that's exactly what I'd like to hear, too: slow-burning cante accompaniment, even if it means a few cantes between falsetas. Maybe he feels that a cante recording would be a step backward for him (those recordings with El Sevillano, Enrique Montoya, etc.), but I sometimes think that his mind is just too fast and too strong to slow down for something as introspective as that. Soleá and siguiriya have never been his strong suit, anyway, IMO. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that his focus is on lighter stuff like tangos, bulerías, alegrías... Well, at least potentially lighter stuff...
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
Well, at least potentially lighter stuff...
I was trying for a moment to think how much genuinely 'playful' music he has produced in his time. Not that that is a measure of anything.. but just relating to this interview and thread, and the thoughts expressed.
You might disagree (and you probably all will ), but it struck me that from the albums I have heard, perhaps the most playful is Cositas Buenas.. his most recent album, at his least youthful. Whereas much of the album shows the playfulness of a 6 year old.
Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Pimientito)
Yeah thanks Norman that was really interesting. He did sound a bit depressed, but I think what you guys have pointed out is right - to be as good as Paco you have to be absolutely driven. And that leads to a dilemma between discipline and enjoyment. It's easy for those of us who work in ordinary jobs to feel that the life of a musician is full of romantic expression, but I don't think the reality is like that at all. Work of whatever nature can be tough and pressurised.
Many years ago I worked professionally as a dancer. I loved being a dance student - there were exams and shows and stuff and yes there was some pressure, but nothing compared to when it's your profession. It was such a shock when I started working. I think now there are many sorts of talent needed to make it as a professional artist of any sort. One is the raw talent of course, another is the discipline and capacity for hard work. But yet another is the psychological toughness you need to get out there and perform, and not to let criticism destroy you. Every time I went through an audition process it completely floored me Never again! I've escaped that
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Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
I was around Sabicas a little in 1961-62. I was in my early 20s, drafted into the Army. I used to hang out at Fidel Zabal's club "Zambra" in Manhattan. Sabicas was a regular at after hours juergas. I met him and became slightly acquainted. At that time he was a good deal younger--49-50--than Paco is now. But he was clearly the king of flamenco guitar.
Sabicas always seemed to be having a good time. He was vastly productive, turning out record after record with new stuff on each one. He would play from 2 AM closing time at Zambra until the sun came up, knocking back a bumper of brandy about once per hour. He never monopolized the stage, inviting other professional guitarists to play solos, and accompanying baile and cante.
There was no one in sight then who might take the mantle from Sabicas. It didn't seem to burden him. In later years, people tell me he was still the same upbeat, basically happy person.
A big difference then was that even the king of flamenco guitar didn't have nearly the worldwide visibility that Paco has. Another difference was that Sabicas derived tremendous pleasure from playing the guitar and creating music. People who knew him better than I, said the only time he didn't have a guitar in his hands was when he was eating, playing poker, or in bed. I didn't say sleeping. Every time I saw him he had a beautiful young blonde on his arm.
Another difference was that Sabicas always said he took the initiative to follow music. When he was eight he was with his family in downtown Pamplona. He saw a toy guitar in a store window. He begged his father for it His father indulged him. Sabicas went straight home to work with his new instrument. By the time the rest of the family got home, Sabicas had gotten a blind guitarist on the sidewalk to show him how to tune the guitar, and was playing music.
Sabicas was a perfectionist, too. When asked in an interview what advice he would give to younger guitarists, he said, "Whatever you do, do it the very best that you can." Paco was beginning to attract attention at the time of that interview.
It's just a difference in personality. Sabicas was a happy person. Paco is a driven one.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
Im not sure whether Paco is really that unhappy. Maybe it was just that day. As he says, his mood can change very often. But in any case, i wouldnt want to change with Paco. Im obsessive, but not THAT obsessive with guitar. Compared to "normal" people im already crazy enough anyway. There are so many people who dont care about music, let alone flamenco music, like people who are more interested in their work, or in other art forms, or Flamenco dancers for example...
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to XXX)
flybynight:
quote:
You might disagree (and you probably all will ), but it struck me that from the albums I have heard, perhaps the most playful is Cositas Buenas.. his most recent album, at his least youthful. Whereas much of the album shows the playfulness of a 6 year old.
Yes, I have to disagree with everything you've said, except about the playfulness of Cositas. Maybe I'm not understanding you but isn't that his most recent recording? In any case, playful can mean different things. His use of dynamics, especially to create rhythmic patterns (accented notes in arpeggio patterns, for example) is very playful, IMO. Also, the way he uses harmonies, for example to gradually "sour" the melody in the last few beats before the resolution. I also disagree with the analogy of a six-year old because they're the kings of playfulness. So I agree about Cositas, but I'd describe it differently (it sounds like he's smiling to me).
Ailsa:
quote:
I think now there are many sorts of talent needed to make it as a professional artist of any sort.
That's for sure. In addition to what you said, other things that help are having a good head for business, charisma, memory...
Richard:
quote:
In later years, people tell me he was still the same upbeat, basically happy person.
I've heard that, too ("¡que no tenía maldad!").
quote:
...turning out record after record with new stuff on each one.
He never stopped coming up with new ideas, but don't you think he often repeated them on his recordings? I think Paco's got a few repeats, too.
I didn't get the impression that Paco was particularly depressed. For at least 10 years his interviews have always had a few serious parts, like when he complains about his age, how tired he is of the guitar, the weight of responsibility, etc. In the Russian interview from a few weeks ago, he says something like, at his age, his plans have to do with the years, months, days, hours and minutes that he has left to live. In this interview, it sounds to me like more of his usual answers.
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From: Washington DC
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
Soleá and siguiriya have never been his strong suit, anyway, IMO.
Siguiriya I could agree. Tientos also. Solea? No way. He always had exemplary Solea in his rep as soloist or accomp. It is too bad he has not done much solea live in many years, since late 80's I think. But I count Solexbul in the same category guitarwise so it is typical if you have a nice solxbul or new stuff, you don't want to do also solea solo. Especially if you have tons of jazzfusion to get through that night.
Sabicas vs Paco. 2 important differnces also. One resided in USA, near jazz music scene and classical guitar concert scene (ie music fans and guitar aficionados). The other resided mainly in Spain where accomp of cante was the thing and cante is coming from low class gitanos mainly. So prestige of the art form has to be in perspective. Sabicas was "king" but his peers were Escudero, C. Montoya, Juan Serrano etc, where as Paco had to play in company of Marchena, Cepero, Morao, Parilla, etc etc. What I mean is if Paco had been living in NYC USA, he would have felt more freedom to experiment and get on stages and make records, then he did in Spain, where he played for a singer and got applause for his falseta, he was EMBARRASSED!
Second thing is Sabicas is Gitano, Paco is payo. When you get to know many of gitanos you may understand what I mean by why that is important to their differences in character dealing with being the "king" of something like flamenco guitar.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Ricardo)
I think many of his soleá falsetas are exemplary, but I personally wouldn't use that word for his kind of soleás. Here's some criticism, based on my preferences: His soleás are a little too round, bright and clean (metaphorically, of course). I've never liked that caña/polo ending of his, and his picados usually derail the mood, especially the ones that go with the caña/polo idea. Same story with some of his highly syncopated falsetas. For my taste, Paco, Enrique de Melchor and others blur the distinctions between soleá and cantiñas. I think there's a lot to be said about that, although I'm not sure I would be able to state my case very well.
Now that I've had my rant, I'll say again that many of his soleá falsetas are exemplary, and he clearly excels at fast soleá. The only time I saw him in concert, a few years ago in Madrid, I was with a singer who I used to accompany. At one point, neither of us could say what Paco was playing. But that's not criticism, because I soon realized that it was like an extended "jam" set to the context of a fast soleá, and I think that's very sophisticated and very flamenco.
So I'm not saying that real soleá always has to be slower, but IMO one kind of soleá involves a dreamy, introspective kind of mood, like someone who starts talking while still lost in thought, and if an artist doesn't evoke that kind of mood once in a while, soleá isn't really his/her strong suit. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
I've never liked that caña/polo ending of his, and his picados usually derail the mood, especially the ones that go with the caña/polo idea. Same story with some of his highly syncopated falsetas. For my taste, Paco, Enrique de Melchor and others blur the distinctions between soleá and cantiñas.
Hmm, I understand exactly what you mean. But honestly you need to put the blame all the way back on Ramon Montoya cuz he is the one that was doing that. Paco was just sticking to the concept as continued by Sabicas and others. Both with the jolting picados and the infusion of Caña BAILE falsetas as a final. All those ideas he was "fleshing out" with his own input, but hardly original nor innovative as concepts for a guitar solo. He might have even felt obligated to include those things, as he delicately introduced new chords and synchopation ideas. For sure he took baby steps with Solea compared to what he was doing with Bulerias, all the way back in 72.
The jam band thing comes from the fact he feels a need to include things from older and newer recordings he has made, so he often does a medley of things that may in fact include a mix of palos in a single "piece". I think he has been doing that both in guitar solos (alone), and after group members get added on during the show, since the late 70's.
I think revisiting the Solea on Almoraima might be revealing. The innovation there is a sort of dark arabic flavor to the mood, as goes with the opening bulerias, and also the way it builds into the Solea por buleria (again not different then what Sabicas would do, speeding up) but with the addition of the group joining him. Then finally a set of chords is done as a "progression" and he sort of improvises over it (actually sticking lots of fandangos licks in there). Not exactly in the jazz way, but still right there is the only really modern concept (for it's time). So, with a new chord or two in the main solo, and the "jam band" thing happening just at the end, you see how he took some baby steps there to bring Solea to a new place, without having to rehash the old change to caña or go to a happy bulerias type thing his maestros always did.
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
I found this interview very interesting and his feelings about his work quite understandable. I spent a couple of years in a band as a youth and even with that very limited experience, I often found myself listening to individual instruments rather than songs as a whole as a "listener". After a lifetime with a guitar in hand and the pressure (or expectations) of being #1, I can imagine wanting to just be in the audience appreciating the music for a change.
Mostly I find interviews with musicians boring and I ignore them. But this one was pretty eye-opening.
Thanks for the translation - excellent work and much appreciated!
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to Ricardo)
Thanks for posting that, Ricardo.
quote:
But honestly you need to put the blame all the way back on Ramon Montoya cuz he is the one that was doing that. Paco was just sticking to the concept as continued by Sabicas and others.
Yes, Manolo de Huelva's got something like that, too, and I don't like it in any of them. Rather than leaving it at that--because fussy gets to be old after a while (heh)--, let me try to put it poetically (feel free to gag at any time): Cádiz is like the sea, Almería is like minerals and, between them both, the plains of Seville (la campiña) are like wheat... being crushed under a millstone. That's how I like soleá: a stone going around and around. Plaza Alta and other recordings sound more like a marble than a stone. Too shiny and perfect, with all those colors reflecting inside... But I'm not saying that those recordings aren't great music, or that Paco is anything less than a six-string orchestra.
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From: South East England
RE: Paco awarded degree at Berklee (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
Cádiz is like the sea, Almería is like minerals and, between them both, the plains of Seville (la campiña) are like wheat... being crushed under a millstone. That's how I like soleá: a stone going around and around.
Norman I'm impressed, I'd no idea you were a romantic poet at heart!
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Couldnt they bring the award to him to Spain or Mexico??? 
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