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Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to Guest)
quote:
Honestly, and with all due respect, I don't think Diego el Morao could play the falsetas AS THEY ARE, simply because he doesn't have the speed, the "aire" and the technique to perform them as they really are.
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to Guest)
quote:
Diego el Morao could play the falsetas AS THEY ARE, simply because he doesn't have the speed, the "aire" and the technique to perform them as they really are.
......Are we thinking about the same guy here?
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This is hard stuff! Don't give up... And don't make it a race. Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to jg7238)
Give me a break!
I hope i misunderstood this.
But Diego del Morao and Not enough Aire ???? I would even accept that some players have higher technical skills, but don't mention things like Aire please. Diego can get more AIRE out of ONE single note than some players with a whole piece.
Why can't we just teach, play or share our views from our favourite guitarists without runing others (directly or indirectly) down?
I mean: Paco Cepero is Comedian.....Diego del Morao has no Aire......what comes next? ´...Gerardo Nunez is a Joke? Moraito sucks ? ...Vicente Amigo is Ottmar Liebert ? ......
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to Guest)
Sometimes the most important messages can be lost in with the verbiage - I'd like to highlight this from your previous input:
"... there are just TWO obstacules which can check your progress 1-is JUMPING OVER THE GRADIENT; gradient ,the gradient is a dinamical concept,and it is pretty complex to explain in 10 min. but we can say that it is, for example the speed at which I can do say a scale, or rasgueo very CLEAN WITH COMPLETE CONTROL OF IT,and while we are practicing we shoul not jump over that, otherwise failure is guaranteed"
I totally agree...but can't stop myself ...I'm sure I'm not the only one?
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to jg7238)
Well, i agree with many points you mentioned Prof. Diaz. For example the first part is absolutely correct.
But between the lines, i have the feeling that you simply don't accept any other opinion about ANYTHING other than yours, and that whenever you see such an opinion about something that may differ from yours, you feel like it is an attack againts you or disrespect and that everyone wants to be a teacher and a "pilot" now!
Actually thats not the case.
There is a discrepancy here. I am highly interested to try to learn what you are teaching and to follow instructions without discussing about any technical aspects, just listen and learn. Because i can see that you are a top notch guitarist and teacher.
But i am also a human beeing with an own opinion about other things (like other players) that may differ from yours.
What shall i do now? Is that too democratic to mention it? Shall we either just shut up and learn what you teach or go to another teacher?
And i also have a different opinion about Style. What you say is basically to copy a Style. But if we all do that, we will be simply cheap Copies of Paco. We will never be as good as Paco and we will never have a distinctive Style.
So what is wrong about learning from different teachers, combine things, techniques, combine Styles and finally ADD a little bit of own personality and Style ?
Isn't that the goal of every musician (Amateur or Pro, doesn't matter)?
About internet: it has not only disadvantages but many advantages for many people. For example you could have never reached us without internet and may only be teaching few people from Toronto. And we could never learn from your Youtube Videos.
Or for students: we have thousands of students (or people who want to learn or are learning flamenco guitar, but who don't have the chance to personally visit a good teacher in their City/Country/etc.). Is it bad that we have these different Encuentro DVDs from Moraito, Chicuelo, Gerardo Nunez, etc.? Or is it bad that we have online flamenco lessons from Jason MCGuire, Ricardo, Adam del Monte, etc. ? Sure, it is not as good as having a teacher LIVE sitting infront of you and hit on your fingers whenever you do something wrong. But i am convinced that through Video you can copy correct and good technique (as WE CAN DO IT ALSO THROUGH YOUR VIDEOS!!)
Anyways, one disadvantage of internet is that people don't sit face to face to talk about a subject and that could create a lot of misunderstanding.
It was NOT my intention to disrespect you but i was a little bit offended as i felt that there is some disrespect going on here to other good guitarists (and also because i am huge fan of Diego )., maybe that was also a misunderstanding. If so, i apologize.
But i think a real disrespect would be if i just download your videos for free, and don't even bother what you are talking about, just like people who come to the foro to just download tabs for free for which others put a lot of work into, and then just dissapear and who are not interested in any discussion or the forum in general. I think that would be a real disrespect no?
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to Guest)
Hi Ruben,
Some of us lesser mortals want to play the guitar as a means of relaxation, for enjoyment, or for the occassional challenge and not as a means of self-flagellation.
Have you ever kicked a football? - did you seek enlightemment from Pele before doing so...do you think it is possible to enjoy a kick-around in the park if you can't bend it like Beckham? Would this game have any value?
Please chill out and try to put your salient points across with brevity.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to jg7238)
Well, i think from a certain point, everyone has the criteria to have an own "opinion" about flamenco guitarists.
I mean you don't necessarily have to play like a Maestro yourself in order to be able to have an opinion.
And i don't think that "taste" and "knowledge" should be seperated in Music.
Or that its only "knowledge" which counts. I mean we are talking about Art / Music and not about Mathematics. Of course you should be in to flamenco and have basic knowledge.
I personally like the beauty of differences out there:
Each guitarist/Each Style in Flamenco Guitar has some criterias which makes him / this Style somehow distinctive.
For example, now that we spoke of Paco and Diego:
Maybe Diego won't be able to play "La Barossa" exactly like Paco with same feeling, but i am convinced that Paco can't play a jerez Bulerias exactly with the JEREZ "feel and vibe" of Diego too.
So, is this a disrespect to Paco ? No. Is this a disrespect to Diego? No. Is one "better" than the other one? No (at least in my opinion).
Its the whole "package" of a musician which counts imo.
I admire both (and many others).
I would find it a real pitty if we would exclude some guitarists (or Styles) from beeing good, only because we have an own personal favourite. Yes, i have favourites too. But my eyes and heart are open and i see the beauty of flamenco guitar which appears with different faces almost everywhere out there.
Where do we start to define what good or bad is?
quote:
who is a bonafide teacher of flamenco guitar?, what are his qualifications, his characterístics?, how a student will distinguish betwen someone bonafied and some one who is not bonafied?
Thats a difficult question. Specially in Flamenco guitar. As a total beginner you are almost lost as you even don't know what compas is. So in that stage, almost everyone could "teach" you and you won't find out what is good or bad habbit. You need assistance in that stage to find a good teacher to avoid learning bad technique and habbit from a self professed wannabe teacher.
But after few years of beeing deeply in to flamenco, you create some knowledge and a feeling for what is 1) flamenco and what not 2) what is correct and good technique and what not 3) who could be a good teacher and who not , etc. etc. From there, taste is also an important factor. If your goal is to learn a specific style, you concentrate on it and if you are open to all styles and want to try out everything, you learn from different sources.
Your videos are for advanced students, so i would say that most targeted students in this stage can differentiate between a good and a bad teacher.
And i agree with you that one should deeply beeing in to something, analyse it and do everything possible, if you want to really learn it.
Anyways, nice talking to you and thanks for reply.
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to Arash)
quote:
About point 3: As you rightly said, internet is very useful, but it is also very dangerous if you do not know how to use it properly. there is nothing wrong in taking lessons from many others, but I would like to ask you a question: who is a bonafide teacher of flamenco guitar?, what are his qualifications, his characterístics?, how a student will distinguish betwen someone bonafied and some one who is not bonafied?
Hey Ruben,
When you say things in this way it makes it very clear that you yourself feel that some of the teachers and online resources mentioned by Arash are not "Bonafide." Since, according to your statement, students couldn't possibly make up their own minds about who is a "bonafide teacher of flamenco guitar", why don't you tell just tell us? I have a feeling I know who you think is the most bonafide is.
Remember flamenco guitar is not all about technique, virtuosity and innovation. There are many things that justify being called "flamenco".
I can assure you and others that may read this thread that Adam del Monte and Richard Marlow (Ricardo) are indeed both "Bonafide teachers" of flamenco guitar. I have recommended them as teachers to many inquiries via email that I have recieved over the years..... Now Charles Sedlak....... there might be a bonafide situation there.
bo⋅na fide [boh-nuh fahyd, bon-uh; boh-nuh fahy-dee] –adjective 1. made, done, presented, etc., in good faith; without deception or fraud: a bona fide statement of intent to sell. 2. authentic; true: a bona fide sample of Lincoln's handwriting. Also, bona-fide.
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
I think its pretty simple in my opinion
anyone who does something you would like to learn is a "bonafied" teacher
i dont need diplomas, accents, or big names mentioned to like what i like
if someones taste is not "informed "enough to make his decisions ...well then you telling him wont make any difference..hes always gonna see the world and what you say through his "uninformed " eyes ...hes always gonna wanna be the guitarrist he would wanna be and not the one u want him to be or you think he should be ...(even if you right)
personal "taste" under the circumstances is the only true way of anyone picking and achiving whatever he wants to achive..
no matter what u do u cant save people from themselfs...making mistakes and chosing the wrong path is all part of the learning proces until they find the right path for themselfs..its not a crime to be on the wrong path sometimes (its unavoidable) ...the only crime is to stop looking or to think u found the only one
its no good u telling someone u found the right path if he isnt yet in a position where he can see it..
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to jg7238)
quote:
I would like to ask you a question: who is a bonafide teacher of flamenco guitar?, what are his qualifications, his characteristics?, how a student will distinguish betwen someone bonafied and some one who is not bonafied?
1. One characteristic of a good teacher is also the quality of what he says. If his sentences have a high quality, he dont need to do large monologues. A few sentences suffice. That also means such a person uses words everybody understands directly. e.g. This is no teaching but nuts in the same field: NUTS Crazy mathematical analyses excessive bla bla bla and just 14 lines poor concluding remarks.
2. Beginners also cant distinguish between any players quality. But to get the best results, everybody should learn as much as one can from as many teachers (or better said: players) as possible to find the own best way. It is never a good idea just to focus on one viewpoint (or just one style, e.g. Paco).
3. Skilled players are often not good in teaching. Especially in flamenco. Many think their ways of holding the hands or doing any technique is the only right way and force the students to learn it that way. Thats contra-productive in 90% of the cases.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Bulerias "El Chorruelo"... (in reply to jg7238)
I think you misunderstood Jasons comment, Prof. Diaz.
He said , it is "not all about"......he didn't say that you don't NEED technique, innovation, etc. I mean this would be crazy! Of course you need technique, etc. Without that, you won't be able to play what you want and you would be restricted!
I think what he meant was that technique is not everything. Why do we have these special things in Flamenco like "Aire", "Duende" etc? And why do we always talk about that and want to discuss it and find out what it is?
I have seen some young Guitarists with incredible and fast technique, but who were totally boring (imo) and i didn't feel anything when hearing to them, playing the Guitar with no Soul, with no Aire, with no Duende.
I had the feeling that they just wanted to show off or something and say: "hey look at me, i am as fast as Paco or Vicente or....."..... but something important was missing. Thats not Flamenco (imo).
On the other hand, you sometimes see some players playing a piece, which at first seams to be easy to play. For example Moraito. Then, you realize that it is not easy at all, IF you want to play it with that specific Aire and Vibe !!! Do you know what i mean? Or Moron Style...seams to be easy....but there is something which you can't exactly define, but which is somehow haunting.
That is what i meant with "different faces of flamenco".
The only thing worth doing is what's never been done before. All art is based on non-conformity. Originality is a quality that cannot be imitated. The technique of the language, on the other hand, is something that belongs to all who can understand it
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