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Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4
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Not a lot of progress today (only 2 hours to work, but the neck is quite detailed and laborous. Also waiting for my bracewoods to arrive so I can begin on the soundboard. Both sides are now bent, and spent a few hours today, shaping the head, and am making pattern templates from the drawings on plastic so that I can transfer the heel dimensions for final shaping. Here's a tip: Make 2 or 3 B&W cheapy prints of the plans to cut, mess, make notes on, etc... I paid $4.50 US to make a copy. Should have made 3...2 at least. Save your really good plan sheet. Would have made a good wall-hanger print with the little color photos on it... Here' a shot of the headplate, neck, and fingerboard (just laid on). Still a long ways to go on this, but I'm gaining on it.. Used an oscillating sander to shape the head so cleanly....Nice machine. In the shot, you can also see a little plastic on the left. This is cut-able with scissors, and you use a fine sandpaper to put a surface on it that accepts pencil lines well. Put a hole in it, and just hang it up, handy for use again. R
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Date May 1 2006 23:33:53
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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Hi Ramon Looks good what you are doing. Make sure your bracewood is 100% dry and stable before you do the bracing. It´s such a stupid thing to have the plates warp because of green bracewood
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Date May 2 2006 6:43:56
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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Another thing Ramon: I would leave the fingerboard for now. You might have to change a lot of things on it when you are going to glue it on. The neck angle is the most complicated thing on a flamenco guitar. It´s impossible to follow a plan and have the guitar come out exactly the same. The spanish neck joint is very charming, intuitive and strong (I use it myself) but guitars do never come out of the assembly jig (solera) the same everytime. There are always some difference in neck angle. This you compensate with the fingerboard, which is never completely straight underneath. A lot of builders, even VERY experienced classical builders, have made flameneco guitars with a wrong neck angle. It is not very important on a classical guitar, but on a flamenco it´s one of THE most important issues. If you give an extremely well sounding flamenco guitar with a distance between strings and soundboard at the bridge of more than 9mm to a pro, he will tell you that it sounds well, but that it´s useless. So leave the fingerboard for now. There´s a good chance that you have to change things on it and even recut the fret slots. I almost always recut the fretslots by hand after having glued the fingerboard on and having given it the last compensation. Un saludo Anders
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Date May 3 2006 7:03:00
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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O yeah, as far as I remember you Ramirez is around 7mm, which is wonderfull, but to build a new guitar with 7mm is a bit on "the edge" If it settles with time and you have to lower the saddle, you come so close to the soundboard that you might touch it while doing hard picado This with neck angle and stringheight is extremely difficult to explain. It´s there all the time. The way you bend the sides, the amount of pressure you put on the back while gluing it on etc. all affects the neck angle. So it´s a long process of compensating and controlling factors. I kind of like it and that´s why I build with the spanish heel. It´s very organic But I understand the builders to prefer the "american way" where you use some kind of dovetail joint and glue the neck on after completing the body. It makes controlling the neck angle a lot easyer.
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Date May 5 2006 6:50:03
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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I will just add one little thing to this very interesting and usefull discussion: A good sized foot will also help strengthen the guitar in this area when you build "Spanish" because it takes some of the stress away from the top. In general I see bigger foots on never guitars than on older ones. This area of a guitar is very importan that it is well build. And when things go wrong it normally happens here. I called the mortise, dovetail or butt joint "American" because it´s the way the American steel string guitar is build
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Date May 6 2006 8:30:21
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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Hola all, I have just returned from 6 days away on business (ugh - 12 hour days, 6 days), so I'm just reading all the responses and input! Thanks! Bob Hein, the builder here, uses the Romanillos method at the neck, with the wedges. I was tempted to use it, but in talking to Tom Blackshear, he suggested I either build the plan - or just build whatever... I have decided to stick to the plan, as drawn. There is just a 'side-thickness' slot on either side of the neck for the sides, and I can use a very thin wedge to take up any gap I might have, although a 'dry run' shows it to be quite snug. The Romanillos method is quite nice - but why build a Reyes if I am not building a Reyes, tu sabes? Also, I have left the appropriate thickness to the fretboard, etc., for final sanding and leveling BY HAND. Today, I cut all my braces, leaving all slighty thick, so they will be 'tuned by hand' as I begin the back and top. Tom Blackshear says there is a "slight curve from bridge to back edge of the guitar"..."slight"....Is that a unit of measure??? So I am going to add a 1/8" thick piece of masonite to the back edge of the solera, up to the bridge, and feather the edges and back to '0'...There are many areas of this plan somewhat open to interpretation...Even with Bob's experience, he's curious as to the lack of many details and measurements... Used some VERY straight-grained German Spruce for my braces, soundhole backing, etc., and all are laid onto a flat board for a bit more air/curing. I have a tremendous new-found respect for builders and their prices...lol...Struggling with the decision to build a rosette, or use the one I have.... R
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Date May 9 2006 3:25:56
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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Bob and I discussed the Romanillos Method today, and he said it IS a bit trickier, but now that he has the jigs for it - and the experience - he says it's a pretty slick method. The Reyes plans will make it hard to shim - if necessary - and I can see why. However, as I said, I"m going to stick to the plans. Tom's 'Reyes' guitars are getting rave reviews, so I'm not going to mix and match. Spent a bit of time today cutting all the fan braces to exact lengths and heights, cross braces to exact heights (nearly - saving a hair for final sanding/tuning), soundhole brace, etc... finished the bridge-brace (contra puente) which is only 1/32" at the center and tapers to zero, so sanding is pretty precise. Our humidity in San Diego is running in the high 60% right now, so Bob has got me readying all the braces and such for a "Glue Day" to the top, so when humidity drops, I can move... Also spent the day readying my solera. Had to shave a piece of 1/8" masonite from 1/8th to Zero, so that the last edge from behind the bridge to the bottom edge will have a slight roll. That's all glued and ready for final fairing/sanding. Hard to work on items for BUILDING the guitar - NOT the guitar itself! Patience patience patience...... My mantra! R
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Date May 11 2006 2:31:09
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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quote:
Our humidity in San Diego is running in the high 60% right now, so Bob has got me readying all the braces and such for a "Glue Day" to the top, so when humidity drops, I can move.. Now thats the way to go. Have patience and wait until it´s under 50%. Dont worry about the Spanish heel. It works very well and millions of guitars are made that way. But glue the sides into the slots!! good luck
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Date May 11 2006 6:38:56
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Building a Flamenco Guitar - 4 (in reply to Ramón)
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Gracias, Anders... I am TRYING not to be a typical American; IWANTITNOW kind of attitude (I'll have the Reyes flamenco, please, french fries and a coke...) Anders... Question, if I may (thinking ahead, I know, but will be ordering more stuff), regarding finish. I am thinking about doing a lacquer finish, back and sides, neck, etc., for a bit more protection, and French polish on the top for sound. I believe the Ramirez shop is now using this combo on their 1AF's, which seems to make sense, but I had a question of color. I see that colors seem to always be IN the finish for guitars, and not as a stain, onto the wood, first, as is typical to the way we finish yacht interiors, etc. Stain the wood, then apply a clear coat. Why is this not done in guitars? Or is it to save one step? I am thinking of a somewhat 'amber' finish, and worry that 2 different finishes might color quite differently! otra vez, gracias.
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Date May 11 2006 17:47:18
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