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Open G string is tuned but fretted notes are sharp
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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 RE: Open G string is tuned but frett... (in reply to Ricardo)
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A vibrating string produces a number of frequencies: the fundamental, and overtones. The overtones follow the harmonic series (2, 3, 4,...-times the fundamental) only if the string has no resistance to bending.
Obviously, any physical string will have some resistance to bending. But if this resistance is small enough the overtone series is acceptably close to the harmonic series.
The lower the desired pitch, the heavier the string needs to be, if you're going to keep them all near the same tension. That's why the bass strings are wound with dense metal wire over a very flexible core of many tiny filaments.
But the thick third string is the stiffest. Which makes the overtones go sharp relative to the harmonic series. They go sharper the higher you fret. The string is inherently out of tune with itself, so it doesn't sound as brilliant as the rest. Furthermore, the perception of pitch depends upon the overtones, as well as the fundamental. On the guitar the overtones decrease rapidly in volume as they go higher in pitch, so the problem is usually more or less under control.
D'Addario tries to make the third string louder in one of their sets by using a denser material. You have to tune it up a little tighter. It is in fact louder, but it's also stiffer, which makes it worse out of tune with itself. To my ear it is self-defeating.
When I visited Abel Garcia in Paracho I played the only finished guitar he had on hand, a small, short scale one he made for his young daughter. It had the best second and third strings I ever played. I remarked on it. Abel replied that the quality of a guitar was reflected in the sound of the third string.
The 655mm scale classical I ordered from him duplicates this performance. The top bracing of this guitar is an elaborate and complex version of fan bracing, with a treble cutoff and a high thin bridge strap. My guess is that this has something to do with the brilliance and purity of the second and third strings, but I don't know the details, nor have I ever talked to Abel about it.
RNJ
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 19 2023 0:04:07
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Ricardo
Posts: 14823
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Open G string is tuned but frett... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
Before we had our modern guitars with immovable metal frets, the lutenists had movable frets, and still as the text I brought up says, they were aware of intonation with finger placement within fret boxes.
Moving a little off topic, I have to say, this moveable frets thing must have been good for Bards and singers of drinking songs, where you stick to one key and need the sweet intervals to match the voice. However, this complex vocal intabulations such as by Fuenllana, use A LOT, of ficta notes, or accidentals to the key signature, as I have compared to original scores of vocal parts. There is no way in heck that they would have advocated loosey goosey fret placements with that level of complexity. It would sound REALLY bad…almost all the pieces I looked at. The Bermudo book you linked advocates glueing those fret strings down at precisely measured points to play in all keys (ie 12-tet more or less), and he was Fuenllana’s buddy or acquaintance, so, probably he and others wanted fixed frets for that stuff (or at least as close to EQ temp half-steps as the ear was capable of deriving). In addition to the finger pressure thing, Fuenllana had a couple spots where he would split the string courses such that he would fret a single of the two strings, allowing the open note to clear the finger….as demonstrated by comparing to the vocal parts. I can’t imagine doing that easily on a modern 12-string, but he was doing it back then on the lute-sized vihuela unicorn instrument thing.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 24 2023 16:40:04
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