Minera Mish-Mash

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Minera Mish-Mash

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Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

Minera Mish-Mash

I have been thinking of learning Tomatito's minera in full. In the past I used to mix parts of it with material from Paco and Vicente, but I found that the falsetas together did not always mix in an organic way to sound like a structured piece.

I watched this interesting clip of a guitarist doing this type of mixture. The great thing about this approach is that the minera probably comes out different each time which I think is the ideal. But then there is the issue of unity. When playing this type of piece do you prefer playing all the material from one guitarist and throwing in small variations to preserve the unity or doing a minera mishmash like this guitarist here?

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2013 1:29:12

rombsix

Posts: 7815
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

Mishmash.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2013 3:31:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

IMprovising is risky. Most of the greats have at least a loose arrangement.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2013 14:01:25

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
IMprovising is risky. Most of the greats have at least a loose arrangement.

Would you say that's true of toque libre in general?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2013 14:21:49

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Blondie#2)

improvisation in this context is that you know approximately what you're going to play, where to start, where to finish, but the way in between is unknown...different ornamentation, technique or notes happen on the spot, depending on your mood or just whatever that comes into your mind while playing...
when i totally improvise on stage, i find myself playing it safe and it's less exciting for the listener, so it's better to have something in your mind at least, i think...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2013 15:46:02

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

I definitely agree about performance, but I suppose my concern has more to do with voice. I do not compose my own material, at least not enough to fill an entire piece. When I started playing, I saw no issue with mixing falsetas and ideas from different guitarists, but for the last year, I have felt that it is better, especially in toque libre, to use ideas from one guitarist so that the piece will have more of a unified feel. Going back to the video above, I find that the mixture of ideas almost works but not quite. It is still well done, but for example the Paco section sounds like an introductory part, and it comes in late into the piece for this type of feel.

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2013 2:01:00

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

quote:

I do not compose my own material, at least not enough to fill an entire piece.

So, why not learn, say, Vicente's minera and then, once you've mastered that, compose within the framework of that piece?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2013 8:37:45

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry

the Paco section sounds like an introductory part, and it comes in late into the piece for this type of feel.

You spotted that well....you might become a good arranger/composer :-). Paco used it indeed as a long introduction and in the very same way your musical taste will guide you in selecting/combining material from different sources (including material you composed yourself) while maintaining a unified feel. Like xirdneH_imiJ suggested i often stick to 1 piece with the option to change things to my likings/possibilities, leaving out a couple of variations here, adding or replacing a couple of others there... all with respect for the total picture and keeping an eye on remaining the united feel you mentioned (in my bulerias i have 1 single falseta/remate combination that combines Quique Paredes, Pepe Habichuela, Paco de Lucia and myself so smoothly that only an expert can tell it's a frankenstein combination).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2013 12:44:21

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

If I am correct, this is gitanillotomillo, on his Devoe, a member on the foro here.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2013 18:27:36

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to machopicasso)

quote:

So, why not learn, say, Vicente's minera and then, once you've mastered that, compose within the framework of that piece?

That is a great idea. It is a good long term goal!

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2013 21:56:31

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

quote:

ou spotted that well....you might become a good arranger/composer :-). Paco used it indeed as a long introduction and in the very same way your musical taste will guide you in selecting/combining material from different sources (including material you composed yourself) while maintaining a unified feel. Like xirdneH_imiJ suggested i often stick to 1 piece with the option to change things to my likings/possibilities, leaving out a couple of variations here, adding or replacing a couple of others there... all with respect for the total picture and keeping an eye on remaining the united feel you mentioned (in my bulerias i have 1 single falseta/remate combination that combines Quique Paredes, Pepe Habichuela, Paco de Lucia and myself so smoothly that only an expert can tell it's a frankenstein combination).

Frankenstein combination

I like your description since it sounds like a good blend of both using other ideas and building on them which is what I will try. For now though I feel good about learning one Minera, but trying small variations here and there to keep it spontaneous sounding.

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2013 21:59:38

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Minera Mish-Mash (in reply to Harry)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry

Frankenstein combination

I once had the idea to comment a flamenco guitar player like one uses to comment the world championship figure skating or gymnastics: there comes the double arpeggio (pimami) fallowed by the famous frankenstein combination only he can play...just a few seconds and....but what's that, he adds a full round of picado .... and a second.... and a third... can you believe it????....rounding it up with a standard finale rasguedo, finishing exactly on 10 with perfect pitch and timing...BREAKING A STRING IN THE PROCESS !!!!...this will absolutely cost him some points but what a performance...will this be enough for gold?????

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2013 0:26:31