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Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo?   You are logged in as Guest
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BarkellWH

Posts: 3461
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? 
Whether or not Rumba is considered a flamenco palo is open for debate; some consider it to be so, and some do not. I have been following flamenco for more than 40 years (as opposed to studying flamenco guitar for about the last five years), and the old vinyl albums of Sabicas and others never had a palo called "Rumba." The standbys were always Soleares, Buleria, Siguiriya, etc., but never Rumba. In fact, as far as I can tell, it is only within the last few years that Rumba has been considered a palo by some.

Question: When did Rumba begin being considered a palo and why? It seems almost a genre in its own right, and I am wondering if those guitarists who played Rumba were not instrumental in pushing it as a palo so they could be considered "flamencos." Any thoughts on this?

Cheers,

Bill

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 30 2010 17:06:44
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
quote:

Any thoughts on this?


Bill,

In Madrid in the early 70's "Peret" was the main man of rumba when Tonino Baliardo was still potty training.
All the Flamencos and non-Flamencos loved his stuff!

When you walked around Madrid, you could hear it pouring out of the Juke Boxes in practically every Bar.

I think up till that time Rumbas were like Guajiras and Columbianas etc..."Cantes de Ida y Vuelta"...a bit "exotic" and played for a bit of interest and fun only.

I think Peret started the whole popular Rumba thing off in Spain!




(BTW: There's something about that video that reminds me of "Gerry and the Pacemakers".. )



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 30 2010 19:06:17
 
rombsix

Posts: 7831
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
quote:

It seems almost a genre in its own right


It is.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 30 2010 20:52:34
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
I like Ron's theory its so logical as Tonino Baliardo is a member of the Gipsy kings band and they introduced thousand of rumbas.
maybe Juan Martin might be involved as well.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 30 2010 21:36:15
 
Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009
 

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
Hmm- interesting vids Ron.

Live performance is always better than lipsynched.

However:

Groovy sounding early 70s rumba sounds better than a tune
that sounds like it was stolen from George Harrison's trash can.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2010 2:35:02
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1747
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
Quote ftom Toques flamencos, Paco Peña, 1976. page 9

"Rumba Gitana,

This recent and popular style is an example of the continuing developement of flamenco.

Rumba gitana reflects ideas from contemporary music and shows a strong latin
American influence; however, it is strictly flamenco - having developed from TIENTOS / TANGOS.

It has a syncopated 2/4 rhytm"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2010 6:36:46
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
Agree with Pena....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2010 8:46:36
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to beno) 
I've posted an excerpt from a recording (Paris 1966) of the El Sali Dance Company (with Paco Peña on guitar) in the Audio/Video Uploads section.

I don't know about you, but this definitely sounds like (fairly Traditional) Flamenco to me and nothing like the "Entre Dos Aguas" influenced Rumba stuff you hear everywhere these days.


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2010 10:33:43
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is Rumba Actually a Flamenco Palo? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
I don't know the history, but it seems like it was pretty old and part of flamenco for a long time. The same singing of Tangos can be done por rumba, only faster tempo. At some point the groove accent changed a touch, but gitanos still interpret a mix of feels in one go, moving Tangos to tanguillos to rumba like it ain't no thing.

It is true rumba is a genre of it's own because of the gitanos up north in the Catalan region. Much like bulerias de jerez, 90% of their songs are done to THAT rhythm. It spilled over into southern France as well hence the Rumba from the Carmague Gipsy kings et al....

In Rito y geografia several old timers complain about the popularity of rumba amongst the younger flamencos, although they admit it is nice just they prefer the hard core deep palos.

Fandangos is also a genre it's own where you have non flamenco interpretors. Sevillanas is known and done by almost all flamencos, yet again you have an entire genre of only sevillanas as well.

The core of flamenco is Solea/Bulerias, Siguriyas/Martinete/Tona etc, Cantiñas Tientos/Tangos. For sure any interpretations of these forms are considered Flamenco 100%.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2010 14:33:06
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