Modern silencio

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Modern silencio

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Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Modern silencio

Hello
Could anyone point me in the direction of a video/recording they know/like of a modern silencio?

I know a few old timey style ones and the one on chicuelos encuentro but I want another.

Any help would be cool
Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2016 19:35:57

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

I second your request!

I've been playing the same modified Juan Martin/Paco Peña one for ages......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2016 19:46:21

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

I'll post you the one Gerardo did about 5 years ago but let me find the recording

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2016 20:12:41

Tomrocker

Posts: 404
Joined: Apr. 18 2010
From: Italy

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Hey Stu, i was struggling for the same thing. i simply wanted something new. when it comes to searching for a specific part like Silencio, you can find traditional videos on youtube.. only few resourcs so i went searching else where and here are what i found:

1. Silencio moderno: Jason McGuire website ( really amazing check it out)
2. Silencio de Jose Galvan: Baile Flamenco Vol 1 ( iTunes) The video is on youtube by students
3. Silencio de Jose Tanaka: Jose Tanaka web site: The video is also on youtube

Then my teacher arranged this exercise by Livio Gianola in a slow basis and a beautiful silencio came out the exercise book is availavle on Gianola's we site :http://www.liviogianolaliveconcerts.com/it_IT/index/content/section/21/name/shop

I don't have a registration for that but here 's the exercise of Gianola:

In Madrid at the school Amor De Dios, i asked, Juan Granados ( not the famous Granados but a flamenco teacher with the same name who work with ( La Usci Bailaora ) if he can teach me a modern Silencio but he only played an old traditional one.

Then in Cordova, another amazing teacher called Paco Navarro, played another silencio and also that was traditional.

i believe it is very important to understand fully how the whole thing work musically and then the sky is the limit with new ideas of modern silencio.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2016 23:42:08

rombsix

Posts: 7817
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 0:59:41

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Sorry for hijacking this thread but wanted to post my progress on this beautiful tremolo (which I just learned) posted here played by Flavio... My nails are still very short quite frankly and it's very difficult to become the guitar..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 2:16:25

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

B string tremolo! Nnnnnnnoooooooo!!!! Lolol jk, I think I could hang with it. Rhythm in the begging is pretty loose.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 2:20:58

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Hello
Could anyone point me in the direction of a video/recording they know/like of a modern silencio?

There's a nice, playable one in Emin on one of the Solo Compas CDs. It was uploaded here years ago, I remember discussing it with Ron at the time but couldn't find t when I searched. Will try and remember to dig it out later when I am at home.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 8:03:41

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Pimientito)

Pim! i think i know which one you mean. I was there that year! and ive got that leant. thanks for the memory jog!!

thanks everyone else too for the video links and other direction. thats a pretty good response.

ill have a look through now and decide which is my best bet. perhaps ill upload a vid if i get a chance!! thanks again.

quote:

i believe it is very important to understand fully how the whole thing work musically and then the sky is the limit with new ideas of modern silencio.

yeah agreed. I think its easier to understand that from more traditional material no? maybe im wrong. perhaps that the key learn a few more traditional ones and then compose my own.

Id actually happily listen to offers of traditional silencios too if anyone wants to offer some up.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 10:54:41

Fisch

Posts: 32
Joined: May 27 2015

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Yeh actually I think it is much easier to understand the structure by listening to more traditional ones...

They normally do 2 compas to begin. 1 in Em then 1 in B7
Then 4 compas's of basically changing between them finishing with something really slow and pretty or straight to the dancer (remembering the change of key back to major)

If its largo (a long one) they just just tack on another 4 compas's but in Major :)

Once you know that you can do anything as long as you keep the compas nice and slow. A lot of my teachers here just improvise their silencos... because they're just a bunch of bosses I guess

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 11:06:54

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Blondie#2)

ah yes i remember taht one! thanks blondie#2 (#2??.. theres another blondie on this site?)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 11:22:21

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Simplest way to view it is like Solea in the Minor key. The structure is 6 compases. If you want to outline the traditional harmonic structure you can go Em-B firs compas, then B-Em, Em-B, B-Em, then E-Am, then close up Am-Em-B-E major ending. For dancers the rhythm is more important than the harmonic structure so you can play around a bit if you want.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2016 11:51:24

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Ricardo)

Thanks Ricardo!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2016 15:52:05

rombsix

Posts: 7817
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

3:50 is when the silencio starts.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2016 19:26:51

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

To make the silencio modern just take the old one you know and work over the chords to sound like bossa nova harmony, and use some jazz chords.

Look at all the positions and inversions in which you can toggle back and between Em and B and you have a ton of new textures to work with. Check out all the unusual voicing possible with Em /B chords.
Add arpps and thumby stuff.

There is no such thing as a "modern silencio" in my opinon, it's all silencio. The structure is a certain length and resolves in a certain way for the dancer. Rather than try to be modern, try to create a double silencio where one is played in a minor key and then ends and starts up again is a major key. The show that to your dancer and challenge them to dance a double silencio.

Or take the silencio you know and play it higher up the neck and twist it inside out using inversions of the chords. Then remake or totally change the melody and you have a new silencio.

This idea of taking silencios that are pre composed from famous contemporary players strikes me as odd when you can take what you already have and re work it into your own branding. Most silencio is based on that basic six compas structure it's not hard to work up something out of that. Sheesh.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2016 23:24:51

rombsix

Posts: 7817
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

To make the silencio modern just take the old one you know and work over the chords to sound like bossa nova harmony, and use some jazz chords.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 4:32:43

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to estebanana)

Classic foro stuff. Ask a direct simple question and get someone's opinion on how you can do something you don't want to. Thanks esteban.

I know what you're saying but we don't all have the same experience, knowledge, talent, time.

Part of the reason I stopped posting was cos of this kind of attitude. Thanks to everyone who helped with actual links, material. Perfect.

I like studying/learning stuff from famous players. I don't have much time so I like to know the work has been done. I just recreate it.
When I say modern silencio I think people know what I mean. And I think you know what I mean. So there's no need for all that talk.

As it happens. I learned that Jose tanaka one. Very nice and fairly simple. Played it in the class and the teacher says.... "Oh actually I've got a recording of one I'd like you to learn..I'll send you the link"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 9:52:25

rombsix

Posts: 7817
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

quote:

"Oh actually I've got a recording of one I'd like you to learn..I'll send you the link"

Send me the link, and I will make a video for you.

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Ramzi

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 14:19:53

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Sorry dude, lot's of teachers would hit you up with similar reasoning.
I was going to turn you on to some "modern hip" stuff I know of, but I simply did not have time to find it on you tube.

Try to find David Serva's double silencio, I suddenly ran out of time to find it for you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 14:31:47

El Rey De los Bagres

Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 29 2014

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to rombsix)

Nice initiative, sharing is caring

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 14:34:19

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

@1"43 you have to listen carefully. You have to buy his solo recording to hear the whole double as a guitar solo.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 15:08:05

Mark2

Posts: 1873
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Hey Stu,
I think you were a little tough on beans. I think his approach is actually easier and faster than learning someone else's stuff. And then it's yours, and you won't have trouble playing it. It's the old give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish.
I had to smile about the teacher saying she wanted you to learn a particular one. That is one of the things I don't miss at all about playing for dance. Once a dancer asked me to play a Tomatito falseta for a show. Thing was, it was played por medio and the singer was singing por arriba. I transposed it and it worked but I was sorta miffed. Falsetas should be what the guitarist wants to play. It's their turn to call the shots. Also, I'd be annoyed if I was Serva with that guy playing all over the silencio. The guitarist plays his butt off for the whole dance, then they want to give the falseta to a bass player, a violinist, a flute dude, whatever. Screw that noise. I suppose I wasn't cut out for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Classic foro stuff. Ask a direct simple question and get someone's opinion on how you can do something you don't want to. Thanks esteban.

I know what you're saying but we don't all have the same experience, knowledge, talent, time.

Part of the reason I stopped posting was cos of this kind of attitude. Thanks to everyone who helped with actual links, material. Perfect.

I like studying/learning stuff from famous players. I don't have much time so I like to know the work has been done. I just recreate it.
When I say modern silencio I think people know what I mean. And I think you know what I mean. So there's no need for all that talk.

As it happens. I learned that Jose tanaka one. Very nice and fairly simple. Played it in the class and the teacher says.... "Oh actually I've got a recording of one I'd like you to learn..I'll send you the link"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 16:46:34

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Mark2)

Yeah I think you're right. I was. Sorry estebana. Just grouchy this morning.
Thanks ramzi but I got it covered. I enjoy transcribing etc.

By the way the dancer is a male.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 18:25:57

Kevin

Posts: 294
Joined: Sep. 7 2008

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

No vid but here is one of mine that I showed Flo a long time ago. He put it in PDF.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/36/Ki19572.pdf

Flo's thread of silencios.
You have to go into advanced settings in the search engine but not all of these have a video. Anyway, hope that helps (yeah, I know...self promotion yadayada haters gonna hate).
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=54815&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=silencio&tmode=&smode=&s=#54815

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 21:57:27

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Stu)

Whoa! Sweet thread thanks Kevin!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2016 22:06:16

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Modern silencio (in reply to Mark2)

I happen to like Indian sarangi and I think it might have been prearranged for the guy to play like that. But I understand what you mean about why is it annoying because that silencio is gorgeous.

Serva used to play at the famous tablao in Madrid with Felipe Maya, famous Jeronimo Maya's daddy' the Coral is the place. They used Davids silencio he taught it to Felipe. David went to other opportunities and years later went to the Coral one night to find Felipe still played his silencio....

David was around when Jeronimo was a young lad and he was one of his main Tios who listened to him play and helped him learned to become a pro. He had some lessons to learn, Felipe was strict and took no bullcrap. An aside, but the point is that Moderne and Old Timey are not mutually exclusive one really feeds into the other the same way Serva and Jeronimos father took young Maya and brought him up to respect. If you want an other version of this story read the post script of the last edition of Gerald Howson's book the Cadiz book. he tells the story too. It is interesting.

No hard feelings Stu, really I was only trying to expand on what Ricardo laid out structurally. I the silencio is great little bite of toque to begin to learn to make up your own material with because it is a complete little unit. Self contained and defined, not structurally insane. But I do understand also that picking up a whole silencio that you like from a good artist can be rewarding. I used have Davis silenco myself, but I\d have to relearn it now to play it.

And the man is correct about dancers, don't let them make you learn a falseta they want, show them your material and ask them to select from what you already know. Ask how many compas' they need;Duration and tempo is usually the only thing they need from a falseta. Have them take from your material. I mean unless you like the new falseta too. There are times when a dancer learns a particular passage of choreography from a teacher and they want it to be the same falseta, but often you can work it out with your own stuff. If not try the new one.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2016 0:23:01