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How do you stay motivated?
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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to tele)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tele
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
If you mean you are getting burnt out on the playing technique stuff, well, I recommend getting into the CANTE. There is so much to study from listening and seeing performances of singers, and the accompanyments are usually not so technique heavy as just solo playing can be. Further, the songs themselves are a major source of inspiration (playing practicing or composing) for pretty much every great flamenco player in history.
It can be inspiring to some, but I am myself in the situation where I think if learning accompanying(other styles than seguiriyas or solea) is necessary for me since I very rarely hang out with singers.
More than that after seeing Gerardo Nunez concert yesterday with three guitars, bass and cajon, I wonder if it's even worth the effort for me since that concert was several times more interesting than anything I have seen in flamenco with singer. Cante is also so demanding in sense of understanding the words, which altough not absolutely necessary but helps. It was fun playing solea and seguiriyas with some singers in one Peña flamenca but I really am wondering if I should put the effort into it.
It really is a challenge though and can bring inspiration, especially when finally playing with some aficionados. I guess it depends how much people are into the cante.
I hear you and respect your opinion. Saddly, I am afraid that if a student simply refuses to learn about cante because they don't like or understand it, then there is something wrong. Of course it is an aquired taste for most, especially if you are not born in that culture. And even if you are, it's a shame actually young people even from andalucia are not into it. Simply put, it is the cante from which all inspiration for flamenco comes from. It is just waiting there to be discovered by new comers to the art regardless if one wants to tread lightly or dive in. It is also fine to be inspired by other things such as guitar solos, so long as it is respected that the great guitar soloists were first inspired by cante, so the indirect inspiration is still present like it or not. I only advise to some that are getting burnt out on guitar practice might benefit greatly by returning to the source. And I dont' mean just playing one or two palos for local singers in a peña, but deep listening of the classics.
Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Nov. 13 2014 15:47:45
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tele
Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
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RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: tele
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
If you mean you are getting burnt out on the playing technique stuff, well, I recommend getting into the CANTE. There is so much to study from listening and seeing performances of singers, and the accompanyments are usually not so technique heavy as just solo playing can be. Further, the songs themselves are a major source of inspiration (playing practicing or composing) for pretty much every great flamenco player in history.
It can be inspiring to some, but I am myself in the situation where I think if learning accompanying(other styles than seguiriyas or solea) is necessary for me since I very rarely hang out with singers.
More than that after seeing Gerardo Nunez concert yesterday with three guitars, bass and cajon, I wonder if it's even worth the effort for me since that concert was several times more interesting than anything I have seen in flamenco with singer. Cante is also so demanding in sense of understanding the words, which altough not absolutely necessary but helps. It was fun playing solea and seguiriyas with some singers in one Peña flamenca but I really am wondering if I should put the effort into it.
It really is a challenge though and can bring inspiration, especially when finally playing with some aficionados. I guess it depends how much people are into the cante.
I hear you and respect your opinion. Saddly, I am afraid that if a student simply refuses to learn about cante because they don't like or understand it, then there is something wrong. Of course it is an aquired taste for most, especially if you are not born in that culture. And even if you are, it's a shame actually young people even from andalucia are not into it. Simply put, it is the cante from which all inspiration for flamenco comes from. It is just waiting there to be discovered by new comers to the art regardless if one wants to tread lightly or dive in. It is also fine to be inspired by other things such as guitar solos, so long as it is respected that the great guitar soloists were first inspired by cante, so the indirect inspiration is still present like it or not. I only advise to some that are getting burnt out on guitar practice might benefit greatly by returning to the source. And I dont' mean just playing one or two palos for local singers in a peña, but deep listening of the classics.
Ricardo
Yes but it's a whole different amount of dedication, learning accompanying and listening to it. I agree it takes time to develop liking for cante, especially when the meaning of the words is where most of the beauty is.
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Date Nov. 13 2014 16:41:47
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
I hear you and respect your opinion. Saddly, I am afraid that if a student simply refuses to learn about cante because they don't like or understand it, then there is something wrong. Of course it is an aquired taste for most, especially if you are not born in that culture. And even if you are, it's a shame actually young people even from andalucia are not into it. Simply put, it is the cante from which all inspiration for flamenco comes from. It is just waiting there to be discovered by new comers to the art regardless if one wants to tread lightly or dive in. It is also fine to be inspired by other things such as guitar solos, so long as it is respected that the great guitar soloists were first inspired by cante, so the indirect inspiration is still present like it or not.
Spot-on, Ricardo. Cante is the source and inspiration for all flamenco. I am a perfect example of someone who originally did not care for cante, but after listening over and over to Fosforito and Cameron, acquired the taste, and now I cannot believe I once did not care for it. As hooked as I still am on solo guitar, I love really good cante that can send chills down my spine.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Nov. 13 2014 18:42:45
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to UnderTheSun)
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Over ten years ago, I went to a two week workshop in Sevilla (it turned out to be three, including a week of private lessons, but that's a different story). During those three weeks, I saw probably over 20 shows, many of them by the faculty of the school (Cristina Heeren). I was studying with guys mostly from Northern Europe, some Americans. We all wanted to get better at flamenco and the whole thing was quite motivating, starting with trying to get in shape _for_ the workshop. Between classes, I went to my apartment and practiced until having people hit my window during siesta or late at night (then I learned to use a mute). Something like that could recharge your batteries for quite awhile.
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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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Date Nov. 14 2014 5:30:57
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rogeliocan
Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada
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RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to UnderTheSun)
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Ahhhh flamenco!
I never got demotivated but I always recognized how difficult and how much knowledge there is to learn about flamenco. You definitely need a lot of perseverance. This is my experience of course, even worst for not starting young, and compounded by the fact hat I had never heard it before.
I love and I 'hate' flamenco, I hate it because of all of the time and of my thoughts it consumes, a decision that takes you away from other things in life. A serious choice.
If I was to tell you how to stay with it I would tell you:
- well first, it has to be a passion, nothing else will keep you working at it.
- I don't believe there are any quick wins in flamenco, every improvement is a medium to long term objective. Accepting this will avoid thinking you don't have it or are not getting it, it takes time.
- Set yourself realistic goals. That is aim for attainable, progressive objectives. Simple things first. Listening to pros and even young (relatively speaking) flamenco players can be a real downer because they are so good and fast.
-Practice a lot and often otherwise you will stagnate, and that is demotivating.
-Another thing I would add is don't spread out, don't feel you have to understand, know and learn every palos there is and everything about flamenco history. I find that too overwhelming, making me feel I have to climb a negative angle cliff. Focus on the stuff you like.
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Date Nov. 14 2014 22:11:52
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sig
Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin
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RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to UnderTheSun)
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I think its tough to stay focused and motivated to do anything well that's difficult if you don't really love what you are doing. There's hardly a day that goes by that I can't wait to play my guitar. This doesn't mean I don't have some down days, days where I have to be a bit more motivated to practice and not just noodle. I think the other trap we can fall into is thinking I've practiced for 2 hours everyday for the past year and still, I'm not as good as so and so. This is very self defeating and allows you to become overwhelmed to the point of not wanting to play anymore. I suspect It has happened to many of us but we have to be realistic about our progress and be happy with the process of learing not just the destination. You mentioned that you are a slow learner, so what, there's no timeline is there? Nobody really cares how fast or slow you are, I'd be more interested if you are really committed to learning.
This is a very difficult subject of study so don't be too hard on yourself, take a break periodically and you might find that you are refreshed and ready to give it another go. Enjoy the journey and the learing of this wonderful art form, listen to some cante, watch some performance vids, find a teacher or some learning materials and challenge yourself and set some realistic goals. I find inspiration right on this foro by all the great players and aficionados that are in residence here. Most are very helpful and many are truly outstanding artists, ask questions and don't be afraid to take some chances.
Sig--
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Date Nov. 17 2014 21:11:45
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jmb
Posts: 119
Joined: Oct. 14 2014
From: Vallecas - Madrid - Spain
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RE: How do you stay motivated? (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
But nothing beats that magic feeling of when you do get to play with pretty good singers and dancers and you're able to keep up just enough to not ruin things.
I think that's the heart of the matter Leñador, flamenco is a social art from its birth. The feeling of building and share something with other people.
And not only with singers or dancers, there is an important concept whose important meaning has been forgotten in flamenco internacionalization: 'los cabales'. It is not he palo. Cabales also means "The person that understand flamenco and enyjoy it", the "really good aficionado" (This is a forum full of 'cabales'  ). They do not necessarily play an intrument or sing. If the singer, dancer or guitarist is surrounded by cabales and other musicians, they feed back the guitarist (or singuer or dancer). This is the great importance of peñas.
There are lots of guitarists that think that the can learn in their rooms, playing 8 hour per day and then someday, play a concert as a professional. May be that's OK por your technique but lack of motivation does not come. But this is impossible for singers or dancers because a solo bulerias claps is boring, but three people clapping bulerias at the same time is music. Flamenco is interacting with other people, flamenco is teaching people, and flamenco is hear and learning from other people. Flamenco is not pedantry or pride and, of course, it is not a mechanic task. Anybody with good musical skills can take part in that 'magic feeling' flamenco but you should enjoy and adjust the thoroughtness.
The concept of solist in flamenco would be similar to red belt in martial arts. If you only are anxious for getting this level, you can't, your are losing the best part and your are lost in a hell of thoroughness.
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Suenas payo ¡y lo sabes!
Sing and string - other flamenco blog
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Date Nov. 18 2014 10:28:59
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