Siguiriyas intro

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Siguiriyas intro

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Stu

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Siguiriyas intro

Hi folks,

hope everyone on here is good! haven't visited much for a while but need some help with something.

can anyone point me in the direction of an intro that i can use for siguiriyas.
old or new it doesnt really matter. nothing to complex as i have to learn it fairly quickly!

thanks

Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 12:49:39

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

There really is no such thing as an intro in flamenco guitar. Any falseta serves that purpose. When you start playing any palo you can start however you want to - with a rasgueado passage, a tremolo passage, a falseta, etc.

So all you have to do is take any falseta you like and start with that. You're all set already, no need to worry.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 13:11:49

Stu

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

start however you want to - with a rasgueado passage, a tremolo passage, a falseta,

Ok. So can you point me to some of those off of your favourite recordings or videos or whatever?

I'm well aware you can mix and match as you say, but I'm just lacking on decent siguiriyas material... rasgueado, tremolo or falseta.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 13:41:02

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

There really is no such thing as an intro in flamenco guitar.

The compositions of Paco de Lucia (and some others) are so perfect from start to finish that i used to think that once you found the beginning of a new piece that whole piece would eventually write itself from beginning to end. Over the years i composed a couple of very nice intro's myself, but 10-25 years later each and every one is still waiting for an equally good continuation :-(

Many of the intro's i composed can ONLY be played as an intro because they tend to start free of compas, with beautiful harmonic/melodic lines that gradually (but inevitable) develop into the palo of my choice. And even when i start "in compas" lot's of intros are especially composed/arranged to fit THAT purpose (you will not play the intro of Entre dos aquas halfway the piece won't you? and were better would the intro of La Barrosa fit then right at the beginning?).

Although in my opinion there is something like a specially composed/constructed intro in flamenco one can indeed start with any falseta or compas variation that fit's the situation.

here's a very simple one.

And this i consider to be an intro that is "free of compas" and not intended to be anything else than just a simple introduction (let along to be played halfway a piece).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 13:50:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14862
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

The best for siguiriyas is a bunch of rasgueado.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 15:20:54

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

"Many of the intro's i composed can ONLY be played as an intro because they tend to start free of compas, "

I feel that the rhythmic palos should always be played in compas. A player can play anything he wants to. If someone wants to play something he calls an intro out of compas, then that’s his privilege.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that if he does, then by definition he’s out of compas. If he feels it okay to be out of compas, he’s entitled to feel that way - it’s just a matter of taste and choice.

And it doesn’t matter whether he was out of compas accidentally or intentionally. Either you’re playing in compas or you’re not.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 15:26:08

Ricardo

Posts: 14862
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

"Many of the intro's i composed can ONLY be played as an intro because they tend to start free of compas, "

I feel that the rhythmic palos should always be played in compas. A player can play anything he wants to. If someone wants to play something he calls an intro out of compas, then that’s his privilege.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that if he does, then by definition he’s out of compas. If he feels it okay to be out of compas, he’s entitled to feel that way - it’s just a matter of taste and choice.

And it doesn’t matter whether he was out of compas accidentally or intentionally. Either you’re playing in compas or you’re not.

Ramon

True, but you make it sound like a bad thing. Libre introductions are often quite effective for setting the atmosphere, before launching into compas.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 15:32:08

tburke

Posts: 45
Joined: Nov. 21 2011
From: Toronto

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

Moraito has a really cool one that he often used, just youtube Moraito siguiriyas and youll find it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 16:17:30

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

I feel that the rhythmic palos should always be played in compas. A player can play anything he wants to. If someone wants to play something he calls an intro out of compas, then that’s his privilege.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that if he does, then by definition he’s out of compas. If he feels it okay to be out of compas, he’s entitled to feel that way - it’s just a matter of taste and choice.

And it doesn’t matter whether he was out of compas accidentally or intentionally. Either you’re playing in compas or you’re not.

I'm in good company :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 16:30:13

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

If you really want to keep it simple just do the A to A phrygian thing and a bunch of rasgeos..mute strings.. as Ricardo said

If you feel you need an introduction though and want it simple why not do the most traditional falseta and then return to it at the end

Nino de Bela shows it at 50 second in here and you'll recognize instantly

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 16:49:51

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Can't go wrong with that Paco Peña siguiriyas. From 00:48 to 1:30 it's Ramon Montoya, almost exactly (but not quite) note for note...but without Don Ramon's fire and passion.

Don't get me wrong, I like Peña. His CD of Montoya and Niño Ricardo is one I play for classical players to show them what good music flamenco can be. The playing and recording are great. But sometimes I follow up with the originals, despite the poorer recorded quality, to show the difference.

This clip sounds like the playing is carefully metronomic so the student can follow it. Nothing wrong with that, except....it might give a mistaken impression to the neophyte.

See the post put up recently with Moraito demonstrating the compas of solo siguiriyas:

http://tinyurl.com/cs2ns4e

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2013 17:46:36

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

Stu –

Here’s something you can do that will have the effect of an intro.

Take any one Siguiriyas falseta. Play that to start. Then follow that by going into a lot of traditional Siguiriyas rasgueado. With that kind of construction you isolate that first falseta, and it has the effect of an intro.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 2:28:29

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

The best for siguiriyas is a bunch of rasgueado.

...like maybe Melchor's here?

And I always loved hearing Melchor's chuckled oles! toward the end of the first letra, where Mairena dead nuts nails the pitch.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 3:51:15

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

quote:

...like maybe Melchor's here?

And I always loved hearing Melchor's chuckled oles! toward the end of the first letra, where Mairena dead nuts nails the pitch.

Thanks for posting Richard that is great stuff!

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 4:53:11

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1897
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Stu)

try a descending bassline, its really easy...like this:

-0--0--0--2--
-5--5--5--3--
-3--3--3--2--
-7--7--7--5--
-5--4--3--2--
---------------

arpeggiate any way you want, then a regular cierre, then rasgueados...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 10:49:01

Stu

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Thanks to everyone who stayed on topic and actually answered my original post!!
some good bits i can definitely use

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 18:15:47

orsonw

Posts: 1942
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Sorry to go off topic but that's some ferocious palmas with Paco de Lucia's picado run at 1.53 Ole!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 18:30:40

Stu

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Siguiriyas intro (in reply to orsonw)

it is! ahaha.

I cant complain! its la barossa! havent watched this vid for a looong time...or for that matter listened to any paco....how refreshing.