Siguiriyas intro (Full Version)

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Stu -> Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 12:49:39)

Hi folks,

hope everyone on here is good! haven't visited much for a while but need some help with something.

can anyone point me in the direction of an intro that i can use for siguiriyas.
old or new it doesnt really matter. nothing to complex as i have to learn it fairly quickly!

thanks

Stu



Ramon Amira -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 13:11:49)

There really is no such thing as an intro in flamenco guitar. Any falseta serves that purpose. When you start playing any palo you can start however you want to - with a rasgueado passage, a tremolo passage, a falseta, etc.

So all you have to do is take any falseta you like and start with that. You're all set already, no need to worry.

Ramon



Stu -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 13:41:02)

quote:

start however you want to - with a rasgueado passage, a tremolo passage, a falseta,


Ok. So can you point me to some of those off of your favourite recordings or videos or whatever?

I'm well aware you can mix and match as you say, but I'm just lacking on decent siguiriyas material... rasgueado, tremolo or falseta.



Erik van Goch -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 13:50:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

There really is no such thing as an intro in flamenco guitar.


The compositions of Paco de Lucia (and some others) are so perfect from start to finish that i used to think that once you found the beginning of a new piece that whole piece would eventually write itself from beginning to end. Over the years i composed a couple of very nice intro's myself, but 10-25 years later each and every one is still waiting for an equally good continuation :-(

Many of the intro's i composed can ONLY be played as an intro because they tend to start free of compas, with beautiful harmonic/melodic lines that gradually (but inevitable) develop into the palo of my choice. And even when i start "in compas" lot's of intros are especially composed/arranged to fit THAT purpose (you will not play the intro of Entre dos aquas halfway the piece won't you? and were better would the intro of La Barrosa fit then right at the beginning?).

Although in my opinion there is something like a specially composed/constructed intro in flamenco one can indeed start with any falseta or compas variation that fit's the situation.

here's a very simple one.



And this i consider to be an intro that is "free of compas" and not intended to be anything else than just a simple introduction (let along to be played halfway a piece).




Ricardo -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 15:20:54)

The best for siguiriyas is a bunch of rasgueado.



Ramon Amira -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 15:26:08)

"Many of the intro's i composed can ONLY be played as an intro because they tend to start free of compas, "


I feel that the rhythmic palos should always be played in compas. A player can play anything he wants to. If someone wants to play something he calls an intro out of compas, then that’s his privilege.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that if he does, then by definition he’s out of compas. If he feels it okay to be out of compas, he’s entitled to feel that way - it’s just a matter of taste and choice.

And it doesn’t matter whether he was out of compas accidentally or intentionally. Either you’re playing in compas or you’re not.

Ramon



Ricardo -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 15:32:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

"Many of the intro's i composed can ONLY be played as an intro because they tend to start free of compas, "


I feel that the rhythmic palos should always be played in compas. A player can play anything he wants to. If someone wants to play something he calls an intro out of compas, then that’s his privilege.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that if he does, then by definition he’s out of compas. If he feels it okay to be out of compas, he’s entitled to feel that way - it’s just a matter of taste and choice.

And it doesn’t matter whether he was out of compas accidentally or intentionally. Either you’re playing in compas or you’re not.

Ramon


True, but you make it sound like a bad thing. Libre introductions are often quite effective for setting the atmosphere, before launching into compas.



tburke -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 16:17:30)

Moraito has a really cool one that he often used, just youtube Moraito siguiriyas and youll find it



Erik van Goch -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 16:30:13)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic



I feel that the rhythmic palos should always be played in compas. A player can play anything he wants to. If someone wants to play something he calls an intro out of compas, then that’s his privilege.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that if he does, then by definition he’s out of compas. If he feels it okay to be out of compas, he’s entitled to feel that way - it’s just a matter of taste and choice.

And it doesn’t matter whether he was out of compas accidentally or intentionally. Either you’re playing in compas or you’re not.





I'm in good company :-)








mark74 -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 16:49:51)

If you really want to keep it simple just do the A to A phrygian thing and a bunch of rasgeos..mute strings.. as Ricardo said

If you feel you need an introduction though and want it simple why not do the most traditional falseta and then return to it at the end

Nino de Bela shows it at 50 second in here and you'll recognize instantly




Richard Jernigan -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 10 2013 17:46:36)

Can't go wrong with that Paco Peña siguiriyas. From 00:48 to 1:30 it's Ramon Montoya, almost exactly (but not quite) note for note...but without Don Ramon's fire and passion.

Don't get me wrong, I like Peña. His CD of Montoya and Niño Ricardo is one I play for classical players to show them what good music flamenco can be. The playing and recording are great. But sometimes I follow up with the originals, despite the poorer recorded quality, to show the difference.

This clip sounds like the playing is carefully metronomic so the student can follow it. Nothing wrong with that, except....it might give a mistaken impression to the neophyte.

See the post put up recently with Moraito demonstrating the compas of solo siguiriyas:

http://tinyurl.com/cs2ns4e

RNJ



Ramon Amira -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 2:28:29)

Stu –

Here’s something you can do that will have the effect of an intro.

Take any one Siguiriyas falseta. Play that to start. Then follow that by going into a lot of traditional Siguiriyas rasgueado. With that kind of construction you isolate that first falseta, and it has the effect of an intro.

Ramon



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 3:51:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

The best for siguiriyas is a bunch of rasgueado.


...like maybe Melchor's here?



And I always loved hearing Melchor's chuckled oles! toward the end of the first letra, where Mairena dead nuts nails the pitch.

RNJ



Leñador -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 4:53:11)

quote:

...like maybe Melchor's here?



And I always loved hearing Melchor's chuckled oles! toward the end of the first letra, where Mairena dead nuts nails the pitch.


Thanks for posting Richard that is great stuff!



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 10:49:01)

try a descending bassline, its really easy...like this:

-0--0--0--2--
-5--5--5--3--
-3--3--3--2--
-7--7--7--5--
-5--4--3--2--
---------------

arpeggiate any way you want, then a regular cierre, then rasgueados...



Stu -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 18:15:47)

Thanks to everyone who stayed on topic and actually answered my original post!!
some good bits i can definitely use
[;)]



orsonw -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 18:30:40)

Sorry to go off topic but that's some ferocious palmas with Paco de Lucia's picado run at 1.53 Ole!




Stu -> RE: Siguiriyas intro (Apr. 11 2013 18:34:50)

it is! ahaha.

I cant complain! its la barossa! havent watched this vid for a looong time...or for that matter listened to any paco....how refreshing.[:D][:D][:D]



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