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JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... and my 2004 Blackshear 'Reyes'.
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... ...
Hola amigos,
I am just back from a wonderful 2 months long trip to Sevilla and wanted to share a little story with you... maybe I should have posted this in the review section but it is not a review per say.
In my two months in Sevilla I have hanged out quite a few times at Jose Luis Postigo's shop. I have been harassing him to let me try some of the guitars in his collection. After a while he got so fed up that he invited me to his house one afternoon in order for me to try as many guitars as I wanted
So, I showed up on the said day and got up to his house armed with both my Conde and my Blackshear. He is a lovely and very welcoming person, as are his wife and son. He invited me to have some tapas and wine in his actual home first before going down to his shop. There he just opened all the cabinets his guitars are kept in and told me to try whatever I wanted whilst he kept a watchful eye.
His collection is quite simply amazing... he has a few historical guitars (Barbero, Santos, Esteso etc) as well as a few examples of some of the best current builders in Spain... Reyes and Barba in particular.
My main interest was the Reyes he had... 7 of them to be more precise. 6 blanca and a negra. They went from 1964 to 2009, with 2 from Reyes' supposed golden period (one from 1982 and one from 1987).
I decided to try them one by one in a chronological order (except the negra and the 2009, which he was a bit reluctant to show me since they were already sold - to the same guy!).
Here are the thought of a very humble flamenco player who has been obsessed with the Reyes sound for a while now...
1964: good guitar, excellent condition, plays like butter, but not so impressive. This was the cheapest of all the Reyes there... and at € 6,500 it's not even cheap. But it didn't catch my ears...
1972: very good guitar. Condition was ok, one repaired crack on the top, and could use some french polish touch up. Set up was excellent. Overall a really good guitar... very loud, well defined but not overly predominant mid range, crystalline trebles and a beautiful flamenco buzz. At € 10,500, it was already getting pretty steep...
1982: now things get interesting... the best of the four in my opinion! Absolutely amazing... everything a great flamenco guitar should be. To us flamenco guitar geeks, language can never approximate the true feeling and impression of having the guitar in one's hands... this one was very very special... the sound, the feel, the way the guitar reacted to rasgeados/alzapua,picado, the way each note blossomed from it... very sweet and lyrical (2 words that come up a lot when describing a Reyes), very expressive, yet aggressive in the best sense of the word... loud and clear. It could go from explosive to a whisper... I have never experienced such a wide range of dynamics on a guitar. This one came with a price tag of € 18,000 - incredibly expensive but it truly was special. It was not for sale as Postigo was keeping it for Vicente Amigo to try the next time he visited him.
1987: after playing the 1982, this one did not catch my attention so much... it was still an excellent guitar but it was missing the 1982's mojo/duende, and it definitely did not have the dynamic range of the 1982. Still, it was a really good guitar.
After having played those guitars for a while, I busted my Blackshear out of it's case in order to get a true feeling of how similar/disimilar it was to a Reyes (or to a bunch of them rather)... my Blackshear is the first Reyes model Tom built in 2004. It was copied after a 2003 Reyes. My feelings about that guitar were that it was really an amazing instrument. I used to own a Kenny Hill Reyes before buying the Blackshear and, although the Hill is also a very good instrument for the money, the Blackshear has something special that makes me come back to it all the time. I had however never played a Reyes before this afternoon... and to be very honest, I was very pleasantly surprised at how good of a luthier Tom Blackshear is.
I will not get into the direct comparison to a Reyes... this is a highly subjective matter with many considerations going into the equation. What I will however say is that the Blackshear was in no way inferior (both in terms of playability/sound quality and building standards) to the 4 Reyes I played. Each guitar sounded different but there was definitely a common thread in all of them... like the 4 members of the same family. Tom definitely got that right in his guitar... bullseye in fact! Postigo was very impressed with the Blackshear.
For me, that 1982 Reyes was something very unique, but I wouldn't buy it because I already have an amazing guitar that is firmly grounded in the same genealogy as a Reyes. And for € 18,000... the Blackshear is hands down the guitar that steals the show for me... although the Reyes has a collect-ability factor that I cannot deny. As I said, Postigo himself was very impressed with Tom's work. He even wanted me to come back the week after so that a friend of his (a Reyes aficionado) could try it... I had unfortunately already left Sevilla.
To finish, there was definitely a lesson to be learned there, one I have learned already a while ago, but which has been reinforced... a good guitar is a good guitar, no matter what label is glued inside it. And some builders outside Spain can build an incredible flamenco guitar that matches the best Spanish builders, for less money... we are truly living the golden age of flamenco guitar building!
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
Avi, Wonderful account of those guitars. I met JL Postigo in 1998 and enjoyed talking with him. He let me play a Miguel Rodriguez blanca-it was quite a nice guitar. I have played a few of Tom's guitars through the years and owned a classical from 1995. It was a great guitar but the top was too thin and it started to develop problems. I would love to try one of his 'Reyes' models some day. Thanks for the story.
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
Wow, what an experience that must have been.. totally jealous here and I'm kicking myself that I didn't check out more places like that when I was in Sevilla. On a side note, a guy played one of my guitars at a guitar show, and he said it was as good as his Blackshear Reyes copy. So according to you and Postigo, my guitars are as good as Reyes (just kidding of course)
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
Avi- What a wonderful picture you paint of these guitars. Wonderful to have the opportunity to directly compare your own to some of the finest ever made- and to be able to see the difference between several at that. We can only learn how good our guitars by experiencing the finest. Wes
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
quote:
On a side note, a guy played one of my guitars at a guitar show, and he said it was as good as his Blackshear Reyes copy. So according to you and Postigo, my guitars are as good as Reyes (just kidding of course)
I wouldn't be surprised at all!
I had a great time in Spain and this little story serves to illustrate that I have met some wonderful people and had some memorable experiences that have served to fuel my passion for flamenco and Spain in general.
One thing that has truly amazed me on the flamenco scene in Sevilla is how many foreigners are present on the scene (both the touristic one and the underground more puro one). For example, I took a few lessons with a Greek guy named Socrates (being a philosophy masters student, I just had to take lessons from him! ). Socrates is a bit of a classical guitar child prodigy back in Greece. He's been playing classical guitar since the age of 4 and a half. He is now 33 and has been playing flamenco for the past 4 years, 3 of which has been spent living in Sevilla. He takes his flamenco very seriously... he just completed his training with Miguel Angel Cortes and he was going to spend the next couple of months taking lessons from Manolo Sanlucar... heavy stuff! He is both very talented, humble and incredibly humbling... he has some very serious chops for someone who has only been playing flamenco for 4 years.
Here's a video of him playing his taranta:
Anyways... coming back to my point... Socrates is currently one of the 3 main guys on the underground Sevillan scene. The other two are Idan Balas from Israel and Ismael from Argentina (everyone calls him Jose).
That really surprised me... and there are even more foreigners doing baile there.
The general impression I got was that flamenco was definitely going through a process of internationalization (or globalization if you prefer)... something that is obviously very apparent for any member of this forum, but seeing so many foreigners making a living from flamenco in Spain was very encouraging. Of course, all the heavy guys are still Spanish... except maybe for Antonio Rey (who is Mexican - but has lived in Jerez most of his life) and Tino Van Der Sman (who is definitely in another dimension from Socrates, Idan or Ismael). But I think that this is just the beginning of it... there will be more and more foreigners learning and mastering flamenco, and that is a great testimony to the universality of art. And from my experience at JL Postigo's shop... I can certainly extend that impression for guitar builders as well... someone like Tom Blackshear (like many other very talented builders) has the passion in his heart and it shows in his instruments!
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
quote:
He is both very talented, humble
This is also my experience of Socrates. He occasionally comes to London to give workshops/lessons. I highly recommend him as a performer and a teacher.
Thanks for sharing your Seville experiences with us, good to read. I have found that playing some examples of the top makers demystified flamenco guitars for me. Before I had this fantasy about what they would be like. With experience I develop a stronger sense of what suits me in a guitar and I am lucky enough to own guitars that I know really suit me without that nagging 'what if?'/'holy grail' guitar fantasy. (That said I do love buying new guitars and very frequently have to resist the urge!)
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
quote:
I have found that playing some examples of the top makers demystified flamenco guitars for me. Before I had this fantasy about what they would be like. With experience I develop a stronger sense of what suits me in a guitar and I am lucky enough to own guitars that I know really suit me without that nagging 'what if?'/'holy grail' guitar fantasy. (That said I do love buying new guitars and very frequently have to resist the urge!)
Very true of my own experiences... playing the supposed canons and holy grails really gives you more perspectives... as I said, we are living a sort of golden age for guitar making... many builders and many options for different budgets... in the end anyone can get an excellent guitar that suits his/her needs and style.
I have played the 2 guitars of Socrates a number of times and thought that they were absolutely ace! His blanca is an Aguilarte (that's the one he plays in the video I posted) and his negra is an Eliasson (Cedar top)... beautiful guitars!
I think that Socrates is having a workshop in London soon. I cannot remember the dates but he did mention it a couple of times... I also very highly recommend him! He's a great guitarist and a really nice guy.
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
quote:
Tino Van Der Sman (who is definitely in another dimension from Socrates, Idan or Ismael)
You mean much better? To be the right hand of Gerardo, he has to be awesome. I saw some of his videos on YouTube though and wasn't super impressed...
Thoughts?
PS: Olé to Socrates for those thumb barrés. Listen carefully at 5:14 though - I guess he had too much gyros before the show, and just had to let one rip, eh?
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
I took a couple of lessons from him... he is a very nice guy as well as being a very accomplished guitarist.
I understand your impressions from the YouTube videos... they are less than impressive. I don't think that these videos give an accurate impression of his actual technique, soniquete and aire... he is much better than that.
He has definitely mastered flamenco... cante and baile accompaniment as well as solo guitar... anything else I think is down to taste... you might like his playing and style or not...
Personally, I prefer Socrates which is why I took more lessons from him... I think that he has a better harmonic sensitivity than Tino. Here again, it's definitely down to taste... Socrates tend to be harmonically more adventurous - probably comes from 30 years training as a classical musician - and Socrates also tends to have more fun in his compositions and performances. For example, I saw him open a gig with the first part of the 'Concierto de Aranjuez' por bulerias which was both original and amazing! But I like that... I like someone who takes something this famous and turns it into something else, making it his own.
However, Socrates' soniquete is not at Tino's level yet... which is why I say that Tino is in another dimension... in Sevilla, it's all about soniquete, not technique! I saw Carlos Heredia (who doesn't have a great technique compared to some other guys) accompany a fairly good singer and push the audience into a sort of trance because his soniquete is out of this world... it's puro... it's flamenco! Socrates, Idan and Ismael are not there yet... they are however working their way up there... Tino, on the other hand, is there!
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
quote:
PS: Olé to Socrates for those thumb barrés. Listen carefully at 5:14 though - I guess he had too much gyros before the show, and just had to let one rip, eh?
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
tino is very gifted player, after seeing him teach and having been taught by him (often working out in the space of 3 hrs some of gerardo's most crazyily hard material) i can say he is in a league of his own. I have both his albums and they are impressive pieces of art. I dont think the man is lacking in any area of flamenco.
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
I´m not surprised to read of Tom´s guitar comparing that way.
Eventhough recordings have to be evaluated with certain grains of salt, there exists an amateur home track with a 2004 Blackshear on youtube that tells you enough. He also once sent me a link to a pro recording ( which I couldn´t listen to due to limited bandwidth, if I recall that right ), but I can´t find the link right now.
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: JL Postigo's collection of Reyes... (in reply to avimuno)
quote:
I am surprised that Postigo let you play his guitars ... that guy usually kicks you out of his store if you don't show up with cash in hand!!
That's the trick... walk in his store with a buyer's attitude! For example, I went to his shop by the Cathedral, where he doesn't have any high end guitars... he asked me what my budget was and I told him that I was after a good guitar and that money was not an issue. After having tried a few guitars there I told him that he had nothing that would interest me and that I would go look elsewhere... this is when he told me that he had some nice guitars at his other shop. He was a bit reluctant at first but after talking to him, still with an 'I don't care how much it costs' attitude, he invited me to his place to try the expensive ones.
I have played a number of guitars in Sevilla... the easiest builder to find is definitely Sanchis. I have played a number of them, going from pretty average to very good. I was lucky to befriend a teacher at the Taller Flamenco (not far from La Alameda) who drove me to his house outside Seville to try some of the Sanchis he was selling... he definitely had some good ones and prices were very reasonable. A friend of mine ended up buying a Cedar top/Coral back and sides negra from Postigo... it was really really good! He tried it and he had to buy it!
I have also played Tino's Bernal which was excellent, although it was very heavy. Bear in mind that it was the top of the line model from Bernal. I have also tried a lower end model from someone who was living in my building... I was not so impressed with that one.
I did not try any Barbas at Postigo's as I was completely focussed on Reyes... I did however try a Barba from a guitarist I befriended. It was a cedar top blanca... here again, excellent guitar, very loud with a nice 'round' top end (probably caused by the cedar top). But here again, considering the current prices of Barba, you can find guitars that are as good for much less... unless resale value and collect-ability is important to you.
Of course I did also try Socrates' Aguilarte... very good guitar. I wonder why Johannes told you to stay away from them. Aguilarte has the bad reputation of not finishing his guitars very well. They usually have tiny flaws and the french polish is sometimes not applied very well. Set up can also be an issue sometimes... where they do however deliver is sound! They sound really really good! But would imagine that the minor flaws would make them difficult to resell and would affect their value in the long run. Idan Balas also plays an Aguilarte.
I have also tried Socrates' Eliasson... it was a cedar top negra. It was an excellent guitar. I really liked it... very easy to play and well balanced sound. Very flamenco for a cedar top negra. The only thing I didn't like about it was that it had a thinner than usual body... but that's because I'm a big guy and Socrates wanted it that way anyways. I am very seriously thinking of getting a similar guitar (with a deeper body) from Anders... I think that for the price, this was one of the best guitars I've played... excellent value for money.
For me however, of all the guitars I've tried, the one that would really make me save up and fetch the money to get (because it really was very expensive) was a negra from Felipe Conde. I visited him when I was in Madrid and spent a good 3 hours in his taller. First of all, I already have a Conde... it's an orange blanca from the Atocha shop. It might not have the hype that the Condes from the Felipe shop have but it's a really good guitar... it's everything a Conde blanca should be! Thick mid-range, dry and each note blossoms with a bullet-like quality to it.
Although I am very happy with this one, I tend to stay away from Condes due to a very bad past experience. I think that they are generally overhyped and the different shops tend to confuse the buyer more than help him in making a decision. The impression I generally get from Conde is that they are all living off the brand rather than the quality of their instruments. I do not like that they tend to keep their best instruments for pros who do not pay the price a normal buyer would pay, and that the normal buyer gets second choice instruments at full retail price... it is not good and fair business practice. And there's also the question of who builds them... it's all very obscure.
I also however want to point out that a good Conde is an incredible guitar! The main issue for a buyer is how to get a good one, when this should not be an issue considering their pricing policy.
But I still wanted to visit Felipe and Mariano Conde to try some guitars. Unfortunately i did not have enough time to visit Mariano... Anyways... Felipe Conde was very nice and helpful. He answered all the questions I had and showed me around his shop. He was in the process of glueing the fingerboard on some guitars he was building so he showed me how he did it and explained the process that went into making a guitar "that's good enough for Paco de Lucia" (his words!). After a while we got to actually playing the guitars... at first he showed me the ones that were in display. They all had the 'media luna' so they were the top end guitars. They were ok I guess but I expected more for the price... bearing in mind that they were new guitars and that the tops had to open up for them to really sing. After a while however, Felipe went in his back shop to fetch a case... he opened it and handed me the gorgeous Brazilian Rosewood negra that was in there... he told me to try it as it was "a bit different" from the others. From the first note I could feel and hear that this one was different... words cannot describe a guitar so let's just say that if I had the asking € 11,000 for it I would have bought it on the spot! It was really really good... the best negra I had ever played before that was my teacher's Pedro de Miguel... but this Conde was very very special, even more so than the PdM I think... it had it all! And it was still new... I could only imagine how the top would open up. I honestly do not think that this price is justified... Condes are loosing their resale value every day, and Pedro de Miguel goes for € 4,500, less than twice the price of a Conde for a guitar that is as good if not better than most Condes... but this really was a special instrument so I guess that a high price tag is somehow justified.
Felipe was keeping that guitar for Daniel Casares, but he said that if Daniel didn't buy it, he would put it on display for sale with the other guitars... I'm not sure about that... that little experience did reinforce my feeling that he keeps his best guitars for professional gigging musicians.
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(just kidding of course) 
). 
Listen carefully at 5:14 though - I guess he had too much gyros before the show, and just had to let one rip, eh? 
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