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I’ve been working on a couple 666mm flamencas, one is in the last stage of shellac and the other is half way there. One Spruce and the other WRC, Poplar ribs neck and back with a bit of Carbon fiber here and there: double full depth webs in the neck and heal, various strips in an active back, couple variations on the top as well to go daringly thin: .088” on the spruce and .075” on the cedar and much thinner around the edge of the lower bought. Friction pegs of course cause that’s how I roll… Torres thin ribs and back kerfed spruce linings, both will finish under 1000g with 14-17g bridges, standard TRG plantilla but slightly narrower upper and lower bought by less then 1/4 inch. Sorry only 18 frets, you know, like the old mistro DDG always played.
New top bracing with no radial elements, saving that for my classical builds, but four long mostly parallel right through to the upper bought linings with just a slim bit of clearance through both lateral braces.
A lot of big changes from my last fourteen builds but nothing I haven’t been thinking about and planning all along…
I’ll have strings on the first within the week.
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras
"TRG"?
He uses initials a lot.
WRC = Western Red Cedar. DDG = Diego del Gastor (18 fret was an Antonio Marin) And TRG = Three Rivers Guitars, check his Instagram.
Thanx Ricardo, right as usual.
Say, have any backstory on the how and why of the A. Marin 18 fret guitar Diego played? Had the white tap plate that went around the bottom part of the bridge wing and a couple butterfly stickers too if I recall.
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
The second Flamenca I went a different direction, instead of the 18k carbon fiber tow strips I went with a bridge plate of 6oz cloth epoxied with a vacuum bag. All up weight is less then 1 gram. Both are an experiment I e been thinking about for some time. Both also have the same CF cloth as the back center join element ad well as some features for an active back.
This will be braced almost the same as the one above but the center brace will only go from the sound hole to the bridge, not all the way down to the bottom of the lower bought
Took some time off and went away for over a month, been back in the shop for thirty straight days cause I’m like that, taking a snow day today and fiddling around on the internets.
HR
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
There was a group of Moron aficionados with a bit of money who got together and bought a Santos Hernandez for Diego, I reckon it was early 60’s. I was told this story by a friend who’s now 80 and he lived in Moron for a few years then. He said the story is well known, David George write that book called Flamenco Guitar around 1967 or 68, I think alludes to this event.
I got called away as I was writing this.
To continue the story, the guys who bought Diego the Santos ( no connection to George Santos, the mendacious congressman) They had a little ceremony at Bar Pepe the famous local bar where the flamencos of Moron held forth. They got a bit into their cups, or at least I’m told Diego did as he was elated to have a special guitar by his favorite maker. They were to move the party to another location and the taxi was summoned earlier, Diego left the Santos in the taxi on the back seat. When it was time to go Diego and the group were totally agusto and rushed out of the bar and opened the door of the taxi. Diego flung himself into the back of the taxi without a care in the world and he sat down on the Santos the full weight of his body splintering through the top of the guitar.
A repair person was consulted, the guitar was too far gone to make a go of the repair and who knows what happened to the carcass.
It was a sad day in Moron. It was an especially sad day because that was the last of the guitars the town bought him. He borrowed guitars and eventually got another one.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
Braced up #17 and glued her top to the ribs today.
WRC sound bars, the darker braces are crazzy stiff but didn’t seem to be any denser. My F’n shop minion was cleaning out the wood cutting dust making room and he cut up all my WRC pieces and stuffed them in the wood stove… all gone :( The shop is really clean now…
Fotos are right after a quick spit of shellac.
BTW, I’m getting old… I epoxy my plates to the ribs, I like the 30 minute working time etc and let’s face it, no one will be taking my guitars apart later to repair them. Anyway there was something odd about this batch of epoxy, it just smelled different, I was half way around the lining edge and on the little mixing pallet it seemed the epoxy had thinned viscosity all the sudden and that smell was even stronger. The light went off in my head: I had mixed up a batch of 5 minute epoxy, the **** was kicking off as I was wiping furiously with acetone soaked paper towels… fun times for sure. I’ve done more stupid **** in the last month then I’ve done in the last thirty years… at least I saved it, could have been wood stove material in another sixty seconds. 🔥
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to estebanana)
Cool, thanx for sharing.
My main question was why was he building 18fret guitars? Was this a thing?
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
The spruce top 666mm sister is strung up. 8mm off the top and 3mm at f12. Just a hint of sizzle if I hit the wound strings, and ya I hit them f’n hard so I don’t take them any lower, the nylon strings I’ll drop down at the saddle once she is strung up for a couple weeks. I’ve only had her playing for the last hour, hard to make any judgments. Of the few 666mm flamencas I’ve built this one is much more easy to play but I couldn’t tell you why, I tightened up the nut string spacing, don’t recall at the moment, and that might be part of it. Thinking my others have vary hard Pulsiation and this one has less but I’ve vary limited experience with this concept and feel so I’m just tossing this out as an idea. High tension Blue Augustine strings. Bridge is Oak and 17g all up with the saddle. The top is some local spruce put up about thirty years ago and if I recall the thickness at the sound hole was .088” and I thinned a lot around the edges, say 2.5” , of the lower bought once the box was closed to get the response I was looking for, no measurements just want a sound I’m looking for. This is the one with the three lateral strips of CF tow and one each diagonal on the wings.
960g all strung up. She feels like magic to hold.
Spent a little more time with the frets, they didn’t need much, but still I feel like I’m getting a better idea about what good fretwork actually takes, next time I’ll be aiming for great.
On tye nut side I set the E up just under .030”, the AD&G at .020”, the B at .010”, and the e with a zig zag rolling paper. I know some go lower but I hit the strings too hard and it’s still really easy at these hights. These are string depressed to the third fret numbers.
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
Got the box closed and bound on the WRC sister. Put her on the main bench blocks so I can get the neck fit up. Made up some wild pegs for her and worked a little more magic on the headstock/neck trans.
I decided to use a lot more popsicle sticks, twice as many to be exact, thin .040” about .375” wide hickory. I little wider and taller linings, back kerfed spruce, in a way trying to imilate the Torres crimped linings, hers are a fat 1/8” thick and 5/8” tall. No tail block at the rib join, just two layers of 6oz CF cloth set in CA rather then epoxy; down and dirty ;) and just a couple grams and zero splitting potential. Ok, was a bit of a F’ doing the end graft inlay but I didn’t let it spoil the party! Fatter WRC lateral braces top and bottom with 5 strips of CF tow on the bottom of the forward upper brace that holds up the end of the fretboard, overkill for sure but it will never sag.
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
I know I’ve said it before, but there’s no harm in saying something twice if it’s a compliment, I really like the rosettes with the little fan inlays. Very original and very evocative.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to RobF)
quote:
ORIGINAL: RobF
I know I’ve said it before, but there’s no harm in saying something twice if it’s a compliment, I really like the rosettes with the little fan inlays. Very original and very evocative.
What type of glue did you use for the bindings?
Ah… You noticed that did you? I’m pretty heartbroken about the staining from the CA I had wicked into the bindings at some point… I think I grabbed the ultra thin-red bottle instead of the normal thin-green bottle…
This was going to be one of my best, I did a handful of stupid things on her sister, my favorite was gluing a strip of back kerfed linings with the kerf out, you know on the bottom plate so it sticks out through the sound hole… and ya I know, I should have just carved it off and started over but at that point I was over it. It was only after I closed the box that I realized everyone would be able to see it.
Regardless I’m still loving the process, I’m not a machine, I can live with tool marks here and there and my less then perfect shellac.
I nailed the neck angle and my fret works gets better and better.
Thanks for the positive comment about my rosette style. I really loved the one that went out a couple weeks ago with the spalted and green. With the red cedar top and the yellow cedar back and ribs with green perfling… just now joining a top for the Rojo… trying to remember how to say ‘red head’ in Spanish. Going to do the five fan and two ring into spruce but not sure of the details, 650mm classical with more mass, heavy hickory kerfed linings for the top…
This spruce Flamenca opened up kinda odd first couple hours crazy responsive and fast but zero grawl first hour or so but then it came on like a bitch in heat. 8mm off the top and 3.1at f12, I can go a lot lower on the nylon strings and a touch on the wound but I’ll let her settle a couple more weeks cause. I hit the wound strings really hard so less then 3mm doesn’t work for me. I get a little wound string sizzle from f6 up with a hard pulgar, just the way I like it! Just a kiss of relief centered about f7-8, I might try for a little up the neck once I change the strings. Feel like I’m still wrapping my head about the fine details of fretwork for a low 666mm scale. Using agistine blue high tension, only brand I’ve used my whole life not sure what would change if I changed?
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
Posts: 15268
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
My main question was why was he building 18fret guitars? Was this a thing?
My understanding was it is not deliberate. Like where the soundhole is drawn in could be off a couple milimeters and that affects the 19th fret situation. Marin had guitars of the same era with 19 frets, so the few examples I know with 18 are probably anomalies. My 670 scale Conde from 1973 has a tiny baby fret at 19, like an after thought, and it is because the soundhole was cut too close to the neck.
RE: Two new TRG 666mm flamencas (in reply to Ricardo)
Ricardo, Any chance you could share a photo of the 18 fret Condi here? I’m redrawing my plantilla with a focus on getting the fret/sound hole alingnment squared away more precisely.
Thanx,
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
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