RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread

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cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to El_flaco)

Well, I would follow Flo's tablature. He is accenting certain beats for example with the golpe. Also I noticed he is going between the i and the m finger on the introductory A chord, whereas I would play them all with the i. So the two different fingers will sound a bit different between each other.

For stronger beats, sometimes they are ma together instead of i, or there is a golpe to accent, or you hit it a little harder I guess. Sometimes by phrasing alone you can accent a beat.

I rarely if ever flick my i off my palm alone by itself but I do with rasgueos. But maybe I should, right now I don't worry about it...

And for you I would not worry about that too much right now either. You should just try and get the rhythm down in your head with simple i strums back and forth. Just getting the A chord right with the hammer-ons sounding good at the beginning of the buleria is a good achievement. Once you get that then try and add rasgueos but if you can't don't worry. Just use and develop your i so you are happy with that - you will have lots of time to get better with your m and your a. That is my opinion though.

I would defer to the real players though - I am still developing and learning.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 2 2009 17:58:02

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to andresito) 1 votes

quote:

Hey Flo, this may be a dumb question but if I multi-track the compas/palmas with the solo guitar or counting version, which beat of the palmas should the guitar start on?

its not a dumb question ..you start on 1...so the loop goes "Ole" than 12123 4 5 678910 AND etc..

so the guitar part starts after 12

use the track i made with the counting alongside the guitarpart to identifie how it all falls over the compas

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 2 2009 19:51:24

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
its not a dumb question ..you start on 1...so the loop goes "Ole" than 12123 4 5 678910 AND etc..

Thanks mate, you are the people's champion!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 2 2009 20:33:52

El_flaco

Posts: 44
Joined: Jan. 28 2009
From: Pacifica, CA-US

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

thanks cathulu,

Thanks for the insight. I'm still practicing and just trying to get the feeling in my head. I'm just trying to get the rythm down first at a very low bpm. I really don't know if I'll be able to speed it up as fast as the original, but I'll give it a try.
If not, I'll massage the piece to make it a little easier.

Thanks again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2009 13:56:49

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Thanks mate, you are the people's champion!

lol...i could have been but they left me horseless

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2009 20:27:20

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathulu

Well, I would follow Flo's tablature. He is accenting certain beats for example with the golpe. Also I noticed he is going between the i and the m finger on the introductory A chord, whereas I would play them all with the i. So the two different fingers will sound a bit different between each other.

For stronger beats, sometimes they are ma together instead of i, or there is a golpe to accent, or you hit it a little harder I guess. Sometimes by phrasing alone you can accent a beat.

I rarely if ever flick my i off my palm alone by itself but I do with rasgueos. But maybe I should, right now I don't worry about it...

And for you I would not worry about that too much right now either. You should just try and get the rhythm down in your head with simple i strums back and forth. Just getting the A chord right with the hammer-ons sounding good at the beginning of the buleria is a good achievement. Once you get that then try and add rasgueos but if you can't don't worry. Just use and develop your i so you are happy with that - you will have lots of time to get better with your m and your a. That is my opinion though.

I would defer to the real players though - I am still developing and learning.

The golpes are as per the original, on the one with notation they are marked with an asterisk '*'

The way that Florian has written his measures ensures that the compas accent is at the end of each measure.
| 1 2 3 | 4 5 6 |7 8 |9 10 | 11 12 | 1 2 3 | 4 5 6 |7 8 |9 10 | 11 12 | &c

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2009 11:08:50

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to El_flaco)

It's sometimes good to hear the same sort of thing but from a different perspective...

Here's a Jerez Bulerias from a cante album with palmas and verse with the same sort of intro. (So it's NOT just a practise exercise for a competition

)

cheers,

Ron

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2009 11:56:21

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Exitao)

You are right!

Regarding if Flos version is just practice material for the challenge, I agree with Ron, there is some pretty cool stuff in this Bulerias. A nice 789 falseta that everyone should know a version of on page 2 followed by the woodpecker, the very cool Bb chord strumming on the lower half of page 3 with the high e and f "twiddling" that you hear all the time, in various syncopations.

Cheers!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2009 20:36:00

gabrielcito

Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 7 2009

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 9 2009 5:23:52

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2009 9:12:05

El_flaco

Posts: 44
Joined: Jan. 28 2009
From: Pacifica, CA-US

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Ron.M)

Thanks Ron!!! That was awesome to hear it and actually try to count with it.

I was thinking about getting the 'Solo Compas' CD's for Bulerias. Has anyone tried it? ( I wonder how long it would take to get it down here.

quote:

followed by the woodpecker, the very cool Bb chord strumming on the lower half of page 3 with the high e and f "twiddling" that you hear all the time, in various syncopations.

I heard it too and it's going to be fun learning that part. Funny thing is that I mistook a 4 for a 1 in the tab. I should have known better. (is there a 'doh!' smiley?) No wonder it was sounding kind of strange and off.
Pablo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2009 12:43:17

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to El_flaco)

Florian uploaded some nice bulerias loops, and also Edgar, you can find a nice bulerias 12 that will work, or use the bulerias 6 loop. The 12 will be easier.

For example, the "bulerias slow" in Edgars' thread would work - that highlights the 12,3,7,8,10.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2009 14:10:20

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Florian)

Hey, fellow beginners, how's the challenge going for you?

I've learnt the piece now - took me an age to figure it out from the tab because I usually learn just by watching and copying. But it's nowhere near fast enough, and certainly not clean enough to submit it! This is still 'play it alone in your room' standard. Very fumble-fingers

But I'm really glad I've learnt it anyway, even if I don't send it in - it's all stuff that's good to have in your bag of tricks.

Anyone else willing to say how they are getting on?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 13:51:15

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa
Anyone else willing to say how they are getting on?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 14:09:09

El_flaco

Posts: 44
Joined: Jan. 28 2009
From: Pacifica, CA-US

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

Yeah, I'm in the same spot. Hopefully by this weekend I'll be able to play it slowly, but to the metronome. Still working on some of the golpes though.
and for me, it's also a play it in my room alone for my visiting baby gecko.

I don't know how fast I'll be able to play it. I'm thinking I might not be able to get it up to the necessary speed, but I still want to submit it. Even if it's without the cool background track.

I suggest you submit it, even if you can't get it to perfection. Like it was said from the beginning, this is for fun. Enjoy yourself.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 14:14:50

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

Well, I am in the intermediate challenge but I am punching over my weight class! I hope you submit because it is mainly a personal challenge - that is the way I am going with it.

Even if you ear says its bad, it may sound good to others. It is like you are in the kitchen, making a nice curry, you have smelt it all day and are sick of it, but everyone else thinks it's yummy. Ok, maybe not like that

but it can't be as bad as you think it is - you will inspire others believe me no matter how bad, just for the courage to upload and participate.

And what about that gabrielcito chap? I thought he was in, now he is in hiding? Come out of the woods and jump in.

Good to hear El_flaco is chugging along! Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 18:16:37

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

Canukistan

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 18:44:33

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to andresito)

quote:

But I'm really glad I've learnt it anyway, even if I don't send it in - it's all stuff that's good to have in your bag of tricks.

makes me really happy to read that

yeah i thought it can be a challenge but a practical one too with stuff you can use alot in the future too

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2009 7:08:19

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

I discovered this topic just today.

I'll still have a go at it. I think it'll really help with my development.

Hope to catch the next challenge when it starts.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2009 7:37:26

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Florian)

Hey Flo, are there deliberate mistakes in the TAB to try and get us beginners to use our ears instead of just following TABs?

(the chord in the 2nd last rasgueo...?

)
I can see you now - "Don't trust your eyes, young flamencos, your eyes can deceive you..."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 0:29:34

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to andresito)

quote:

Hey Flo, are there deliberate mistakes in the TAB to try and get us beginners to use our ears instead of just following TABs?

Aaarrrrrgh! I've learnt it faithfully from the tab!

Is this true Flo?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 1:03:12

domzo

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

Hey, fellow beginners, how's the challenge going for you?

Hi Ailsa, I've very roughly got the first 3 pages, but haven't really understood the last page at all yet... in the last 5 bars are the a+m supposed to be played simultaneously or are they rasgueados?

Cheers! Dom

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 1:59:36

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to domzo)

Hi Dom,

Well I'm playing a and m one after another - a rasgueo. That's what the audio sounds like to me, and the timing of the notes in the notation looks like that.

The sloppiest bit for me is bottom of page 2 - I just can't get that clean atm. Never mind, two weeks to tackle it!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 2:46:15

domzo

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

I think you're probably right. I was just making excuses

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 7:11:56

sam_m

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

Room for one more?

Only saw this today, but I'll have a go if it's not too late.

Is the quaity and production of the recording being judged as well as the playing, or just the latter?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2009 14:59:47

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to sam_m)

quote:

Room for one more?

Only saw this today, but I'll have a go if it's not too late.

Is the quaity and production of the recording being judged as well as the playing, or just the latter?

ofcourse Sam ..welcome

the first post on page 1 has all the info..the deadline is there also...you decide if its too late or not for you..

we will try to not judge the audio quality, we will do our best to look past it...but u know..its not a 100% guarantee ..u have about 13 different people with 13 different ideas judging

its not one of the criterias

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2009 15:03:53

sam_m

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

Yeah, I saw the deadline and I reckon I can have a semi-respectable stab at it over two weeks.

Printed out the tab and had a quick look over it for ten minutes or so, and I definately think it's doable. So far I've mainly been practicing technique, so I think I'll struggle with getting the feel of the compas sorted rather than playing the right notes.

If I get it down in time there's a new room at Uni which sounds really bright, and I think it'd be great to record in, but failing that I'll do it in my room at home.

To offer some suggestions for pgh_flamenco and any others who are after some cheap but decent recording gear, at home I have a Behringer C1 condenser --> Behringer Xenyx mixer --> E-Mu 0404 soundcard.

That condenser mic really can't be overrated given it costs about £30. The mixer is around £50 and the soundcard £60, and comes bundled with LE versions of Sonar and Cubase (or did when I bought mine, it may well have been updated by now).

Still - a highly useable home recording set-up for not much outlay.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2009 16:49:24

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to sam_m)

quote:

To offer some suggestions for pgh_flamenco and any others who are after some cheap but decent recording gear, at home I have a Behringer C1 condenser --> Behringer Xenyx mixer --> E-Mu 0404 soundcard.

That condenser mic really can't be overrated given it costs about £30. The mixer is around £50 and the soundcard £60, and comes bundled with LE versions of Sonar and Cubase (or did when I bought mine, it may well have been updated by now).

Still - a highly useable home recording set-up for not much outlay.

Thanks, Sam. I'll have to look into this.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2009 17:06:18

El_flaco

Posts: 44
Joined: Jan. 28 2009
From: Pacifica, CA-US

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to sam_m)

quote:

To offer some suggestions for pgh_flamenco and any others who are after some cheap but decent recording gear, at home I have a Behringer C1 condenser --> Behringer Xenyx mixer --> E-Mu 0404 soundcard.

That condenser mic really can't be overrated given it costs about £30. The mixer is around £50 and the soundcard £60, and comes bundled with LE versions of Sonar and Cubase (or did when I bought mine, it may well have been updated by now).

Oh I am so jealous. It's hard to get stuff like that down here. Just to get a postcard/letter from the states takes 2 weeks. I'm stuck with just using a $10 cheap mic that I brought down with me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2009 3:56:15

sam_m

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to cathulu)

Soo....where are we all up to then?

Had another look at this earlier, and was hoping to get the first two pages done - alas, my hand is playing up again so it's getting rested tonight and I'll pick this up again tomorrow or Wednesday.

Struggling with some of the dynamics on the recordings, but I'll have another couple of listens before I cry for help.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2009 8:04:17

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Beginners Thread (in reply to sam_m)

Look what Pimientito just wrote about us beginners on the Advanced Thread:

quote:

The beginners challenge thread is like a sunday school picnic, everyone laughing and holding hands and teaching each other how to count to 12.

Just to prove his point, I finished learning the notes a few days ago. If I play it slowly it's fairly clean, and if I speed up there a couple of really messy bits! Last night I went back to the original to remind me of the correct tempo and was a bit shocked - I'd forgotten how fast it goes

It's funny I think this should not be too difficult because I've been playing for over a year and a half, and it's all pretty standard stuff. But when I really listen closely to how I'm playing it there's a lot of detail I'm not happy with. Maybe that's why I've never dared play Bulerias in public - everyone wants to do it and it's so hard to get right. Or so easy to get wrong