Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
RE: El andalu and flamenco
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Pingaloka
Posts: 42
Joined: Jun. 9 2011
From: Granada, España
|
 RE: El andalu and flamenco (in reply to asisetoca)
|
|
|
Hello, this is a very interesting post. I will like to add my point of view as a spanish, and also as a filologist, even though of arab language, but within the field of spanish filology.
Spanish language is actually called many times "castellano". Personally I think this is the correct designation, and not spanish (this is a big debate). Spain gathers many dialects and languages although castellano is the language used in the central government of Spain.
Languages as catalán, galaico-portugués, euskera. These languages grew independently from the "castellano" (born more or less in the X. Century)
at different historical times. They only have in common the root, which is latin, (appart from the euskera which is still uncertain where it comes from).
The rest are dialects from these languages. So, in Valencia they speak valenciano, which is a dialect from the Catalán language, it has differnces to the way it is written and spoken.
In Andalucía they don't speak "andalusian" they speak "castellano" or "español" or if you want to be more precise, a "variedad dialectal del castellano" or a variety of the castilian dialect. You can say "hablas con acento andalúz..." you speak with Andalusian accent, but it is not usual to hear "hablas andalúz" you speak andalusian. Or at least between spanish people its not common to say that.
Again, this matter involves political and social issues and it is open for debate. Some political parties of nationalist or regional character do claim this main differences. I do not agree at all with this separation in terms of language.
The norm for written "español" or "castellano" is exactly the same for someone raised in Madrid, or someone raised in Málaga. That is the written rule. It is the same 100%.
What it is spoken, that is a different matter, as many variables come into account.
Social, cultural background, etc.
There's no "correct spoken spanish" or "correct spoken castellano" there are different dialects of castellano, but all of them are legitimate/legit. There's no reference that can be looked at and say "ok, this is the correct castellano" (in terms of spoken, not written). Some people say eg. "the correct spanish is spoken in valladolid" They mix what is better understood, or pronunciation of all words with what correct means. As pronunciation of all words does not mean correct. Correct will mean that gramatically you construct phrases, words, correctly, independently from the accent, lexicon used, expressions, etc.
That is my point of view of course. There's quite a lot of debate about language/dialect issues in Spain.
If you want to understand the castilian which is spoken in andalucía, or castilian with andalusian accent, or andalusian dialect, off course learning spanish is useful, it is the same language! There are many differences inside Andalucía as well. People from Jaén speak more close to the "castellanos". There's also a division between "dialecto andalúz oriental and occidental" But the difference is not so big. There's more difference inside the cities as how people speak in a rich neighborhood or in a poor neighborhood I can tell you that.
Nevertheless I find this matter extremely thrilling and interesting for debate.
_____________________________
Clases de Flamenco Online
Flamenco Classes Online
http://www.flamencomasterclass.com/
http://www.flamencomasterclass.blogspot.com/
info@flamencomasterclass.com
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 24 2011 21:48:37
 |
|
BarkellWH
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
|
|
RE: El andalu and flamenco (in reply to Pingaloka)
|
|
|
I found your post very interesting, Pingaloka. In a previous incarnation, I spent several years in South America, mostly in Santiago, Chile and Bogota, Colombia. In both Chile and Colombia, those that would be considered in the upper socio-economic class referred to Spanish as "Castellano," never as Espanol. Being a philologist, you probably are aware that Spanish linguistics experts generally agree that the purest form of old Castellano today is found in certain areas of Colombia. That is the case with most languages, though. Certain areas of old imperial possessions experience less language change than do the metropolitan areas such as Madrid. Thanks for your insights.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 24 2011 22:04:09
|
|
Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
|
|
RE: El andalu and flamenco (in reply to edguerin)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: edguerin
quote:
the director is Swabian, her husband is from Leipzig. In order to understand each other they speak English.
Yeah, Swabian and Saxonian are pretty disparate 
I'm not aware of similar differences in English, what do you guys think?
I used to travel to London on business a few times per year. About half the time the cab driver from Heathrow to town would be a true cockney, born and raised in east London "underneath the sound of Bow bells". Most of them addressed me ironically as "Guv'nor" and delighted in mystifying the American with a few totally unintelligible sallies in pure cockney dialect. After glancing in the mirror to enjoy my bafflement, they would translate.
Taking a friend on the Thames river boat tour from Westminster Stairs down to Greenwich, we got a very good tour guide/announcer. He modified his Cockney so that most English speakers on board could understand him. At one point he announced, "Lydies an' gen'lemen, on your lef' izza Billingsgyte Fish Market, the on'iest plyce onna' fyce uvva Earf where the English language is correc'ly spoke."
He also recited the poem
"The noble Juke of Wellington
Was owmost rejuced to a skellington.."
Everybody loved it.
In East Anglia where my family used to live, I visited the church at Stonham Parva (Little Stonham) in Suffolk, where some of us are buried. I was just about to leave when the sexton appeared, a local man in his seventies. He was very polite, friendly and helpful, showing me a carved wooden chest one of my ancestors had given to the parish. I could understand maybe one word in three.
All the same I asked directions to Framlingham Castle, where one of my cousins rallied military support to Mary Tudor. After a few sentences, none of which I understood at all, he concluded, "And then ye come oot by Fram'lam."
I thanked him warmly, shook his hand and went on my way, pausing after I had driven out of sight to consult my book of Ordnance Survey maps.
RNJ
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 26 2011 23:04:12
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.0625 secs.
|
Printable Version
