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Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to scarfaze) 
Ok the quality is bad but its at the end of this. - at 5.02

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:01:05
 
scarfaze

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 10 2008
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
ok 10x i see if i can get it! I have the original transcription from the paco de lucia offical book if you want
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:02:54
 
scarfaze

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 10 2008
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
hey guys i m trying this out and at 0:26 0:30 there is a sort of rasgueo, at first I thought it was alzapua but then I was checking the pdl book and it says i(up)i(down)a(up)

Does any one know if this is correct or is there a mistake in the book?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:39:22
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Florian) 
quote:

so i might do the intro up to the crazy rasqueado and some of the rithm following it, leave the middle out and the changing falseta at 02:45 to the end.


There are a couple of falsetas in the middle that also I think would suit you Flo.
For instance there's that "South American" (as I think of it) picado falseta, (the one that starts with the "stuttering" picado....it's really beautiful, especially the last chord.

Put your own spin on it...that's also what the challenge is about!

(Like the three different versions of "Impetu" that were uploaded recently)

cheers,

Ron

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A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:44:18
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to scarfaze) 
Scarface- this rasgeao is covered in nauseous detail in the first 3 pages of the thread

quote:

ORIGINAL: scarfaze
at first I thought it was alzapua but then I was checking the pdl book and it says i(up)i(down)a(up)


read from the begining!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:51:27
 
scarfaze

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 10 2008
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
first 3 pages??? ohh man this MUST be hard :)

hehe 10x a lot man
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:54:12
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to scarfaze) 
quote:

and at 0:26 0:30 there is a sort of rasgueo, at first I thought it was alzapua but then I was checking the pdl book and it says i(up)i(down)a(up)


Do you mean the Almoraima vid?
If so then that's alzapua.

I can't think of ANY Flamenco technique that has "a up".

(Well...Manitas... )

cheers,

Ron

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 7:55:25
 
scarfaze

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 10 2008
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
no its not the video but frim the cd, Pimientito told me to look in the first pages of this thread and i did :)

so the book was correct, it should be iia, man thats harddddd

I also checked out ricardo`s version on you tube and man he`s great! I think he will be the winner!

thanks anyway man and goodluck to everybody
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2008 8:39:38
 
scarfaze

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 10 2008
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
ok finally I managed to accept the iia ras but now I noticed that the last strums before the abanico ras are marked like this:

[i(up), a(up), i(down)]x2

then the next bar:

[i(up, a(down) ,i(up)]x3

I never heard of these rasgueos (Im almost a beginer in Flamenco) and even if I did, there are 3 different kind of rasgueos with blistering speed in only a few seconds! now Im getting REALLY confused :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2008 6:11:30
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to scarfaze) 
quote:

[i(up), a(up), i(down)]x2


As I said before scarfaze, I have never come across a Flamenco rasgueado with "a" up.
And I've never heard of i(up), a(down) ,i(up)] without "i" going down.

????...This sounds like the way "rock" guitarists play "The Flamenco" IMO.

I would eliminate those if I were you.

cheers,

Ron

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2008 8:02:20
 
scarfaze

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 10 2008
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ron.M) 
it s in the official book!

but ooooooppppsssss sry ron llooool I MESSED IT ALL UP!!!

it should be vice versa instead of the way i wrote it

starts on down instead of up

sry again
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2008 8:19:18
 
loop

 

Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 21 2005
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 


But what the hell is that? Mama mia!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2008 18:25:42
 
Stu

Posts: 2536
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

I can't think of ANY Flamenco technique that has "a up".


How about Arrastre???


stu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2008 22:31:11
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Stu) 
I meant Flamenco rasgueado technique.
Obviously "a" up is used when playing tremolo, arpegio, sometimes picado etc...

cheers,

Ron

PS: For some reason "Arrastre" always sounds to me like some form of Spanish Inquisition torture, where a capo is applied to the testicles...

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2008 23:45:58
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ron.M) 
Thought I'd bounce this one back

Rons challenge is nearly up with only 2 months of 2008 left
Its been an exciting year on the forum with a handover, a coup , a revolution, a faction and a regroup....so anyone could be forgiven for forgetting.

Lets try and get those rusty falsettas back and uploaded It should be easier second time.

...and no excuses now that you are a professional Flo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 1:46:32
 
Jan Willem

 

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
quote:

I meant Flamenco rasgueado technique.
Obviously "a" up is used when playing tremolo, arpegio, sometimes picado etc...

cheers,

Ron


@ Ron, yes there is a rasgeado with a up. pepe habichuela uses it. Its a triplet like the very known aii aii aii. He plays it a(up) a (down) i (down) and again. It's very strange at first. ecpecially cause the i doesn't go up like in almost all rasg. techniques.

Why? It gives another accent in the rasgeado and thus a special pepe habichuela sound.

JW
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 3:30:09
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Jan Willem) 
quote:

there is a rasgeado with a up. pepe habichuela uses it. Its a triplet like the very known aii aii aii. He plays it a(up) a (down) i (down) and again


i thought the unusual Pepe Habichuela rasgeo was to use m up, m down, i down
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 5:40:24
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to mark indigo) 
quote:

i thought the unusual Pepe Habichuela rasgeo was to use m up, m down, i down

I thought so too. Haven't seen him go up with 'a'.

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 6:49:11
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to mark indigo) 
quote:

i thought the unusual Pepe Habichuela rasgeo was to use m up, m down, i down


Hmm..I'll have to look out for that.
It seems a bit awkward though...
Wouldn't i up, m down, i down i up, m down, i down be more natural for a Flamenco guitarist to use.

Is there a video of him doing this on YouTube or anything?

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 7:28:17
 
Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
Here's one por tangos:
golpe with a, up with a, up with i, down with a, down with i, up with a, up with i, down with a, down with i, pause, up with i, down with i, up with i. It's one of those galloping tango ones.

also sixteenths: down with i, up with a, up with i, down with a
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 9:11:12
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

quote:

i thought the unusual Pepe Habichuela rasgeo was to use m up, m down, i down

Hmm..I'll have to look out for that.
It seems a bit awkward though...
Wouldn't i up, m down, i down i up, m down, i down be more natural for a Flamenco guitarist to use.

Is there a video of him doing this on YouTube or anything?


almost any vid of him, when it sounds like it's amii it looks kinda weird, and is probably mmim mimm (m up, m down, i down etc.) or amim amii (a down, m down, i down, m up, amii as normal) instead of amii amii

both encuentro and faucher notate that way, having transcribed from video and personal sessions, and faucher writes:

As an anecdote, Pepe perfected this movement by derivation from a rumba andaluza strumming pattern (very similar to old tangos) he used to play as a child in Granada. In this technique that he had learned from his father Tio Jose, he replaced the thumb of the strong beat by a golpe and the first two index fingers by middle finger.

In place of this: P i i i (all down strokes on the beat)

he did like this: golpe, m (up), m (down), i (down),

From that time onwards the movement was ready and it was sufficient to take out the first beat and its golpe to have a continuous rasgueado after some practising to increase the speed.

so yeah, there's one guy that does it this weird way, that he learnt by accident as a kid, so i wouldn't worry too much about it, and would just use amii or aii all down strokes except the 2nd i stroke up in each case....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 10:21:13
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Mark2) 
quote:

Here's one por tangos


Where's the video Mark?

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 12:09:43
 
farteindj

Posts: 41
Joined: Mar. 7 2007
From: Norway

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ron.M) 
Jason McGuire teaches a rasgueo that starts with a up. It's por tangos, the compas lesson.

http://www.flamenco-lessons.com/free-flamenco-guitar-lessons.asp

I like it

Farus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 13:44:15
 
Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ron.M) 
I'll work on it Ron. I have a cam but I never use it. I have no idea how to get a vid on you tube etc. Ah well, good as time as any to learn. BTW, I learned both from Jason. But the tangos is not the one mentioned by farteindj. The second one Jason posted here-he used it in bulerias if I remember correctly.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2008 13:52:59
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
For you guys wanted to find up stroke A finger vids for Ron. Well, you guys are right, but Ron said at first "sounds like the way a rock player would do it", and Jason, the only guy who teaches it, WAS a Rock player!

That tangos strum (a up, i up, a down i down) is more typically done i up, a,m,i all down.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2008 7:10:24
 
Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ricardo) 
It may be the same one rhythmically as the one you write about, as you could play it using your sequence. But using different fingers gives a different sound. Jason's has no gallop-all even strokes. Hard to illustrate without a recording-I'll see what I can do. Jason is not the only guy to use an upstroke of "a" in a rasquedo. And even if he was, the sound is flamenco and it works. Ron's use of the term "rock player" in this context most probably didn't refer to the sound Jason gets.

Here's a thirteen stroke ras for SpB from Chuscales: pinky down , a down, m down, i down, a up, m up, i up, m down, i down, m up, i up, m down, i down, Four strokes per beat starting on the 7 of the compas-the last stroke is the downbeat of beat ten.
Rock on
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2008 8:16:52
 
Jan Willem

 

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito) 
Oops, i checked the ecnuentro and you guys are right. It's mmi. Strange cause I was convinced it was aai. With enough practice aai with also work i think.

I think I'll have give that mmi a try. aii gets a bit boring :-), it's just fast :-). No just kidding.

Jw
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2008 8:31:53
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Jan Willem) 
While u guys on the subject of rasqueado and strumming whats the most intense in sound and loudest /even /rasqueado u guys prefer ?

say for example if u had a whole 12 beat compas, in the midlle of a llamada for a dancer...where u wanted to make the most impact, wanted the most volume and most evenes...wanted that almost unintrerupted continuos machinegun sound...

for exmaple i do..

P up A down I down and repeat..i find i am able to get the loudest...and most even and closest to the unintrerupted sound..but i am interested if how u guys do it...because if theres a better way i can get even more intensity and evenes ..id love to know it..

I know it also depends on you and how much u focus on it but just in general..if practiced alot which can get you the most intense , loudest and evenes

what do you guys prefer ? when u are at the absolute high of a llamada and it the volume and evenes need to go to 11

i know there that similar to rock strumming as if u holding a pick but u not just using P up I down P up and that gets really really loud but its hard to keep it even and continous for long...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2008 10:45:57
 
Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Florian) 
For me it's p up, m and a together down, then p down.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

Acctualy whats the most intense in sound and loudest /even /rasqueado u guys prefer ?

say for example if u had a whole 12 beat compas, in the midlle of a llamada
...where u wanted to make the most impact, wanted the most volume and most evenes...wanted that almost unintrerupted sound...

for examople i do..

P up A down I down and repeat..i find i am able to get the loudest...and most even and closest to the unintrerupted sound..

what do you guys prefer ? when u are at the absolute high of a llamada and it the volume and evenes need to go to 11
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2008 11:16:27
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Mark2) 
thanks Mark..

I used to do that one alot but i found it very eazy to go uneven but maybe thats just cause i hadent practiced it enough..but i found it eazy to overspin or underspin

i find that when 3 fingers are involved ..it makes it more perfectly even for me and harder to spin out into uneveness

but perhaps i should give it another go ? ...have u used the P up..A down..I Down repet..(same concept and motion as yours only instead of just two strums per cycle theres 3)

how does it compare to that one for volume, evenes, intecity ? il practice anything as long as i know that thats the one most likely to get me what i want...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2008 11:24:40
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