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archangel fernandez and foreigners   You are logged in as Guest
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jrabbani

 

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

archangel fernandez and foreigners 

so I was sitting here studying for the GRE and practicing tangos, and my grandma hands me the LA Times....an interesting little article with fernandez and about how non-spaniards are more interested in flamenco than spaniards....here's the article online:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-flamenco26oct26,1,6552684.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

any thoughts?
btw, this is a topic i may pursue for my phd
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2007 20:28:14
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to jrabbani)2 votes

That link does not work unless you are signed up as a subscriber to LA Times. However here it is again in the International Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/26/europe/EU-FEA-A-E-DAN-Spain-Flamenco-For-Foreigners.php

This article was syndicated by the Associated Press a few days ago and seems to be appearing in American Press everywhere. When I googled " Spain Frets over future of Flamenco" it got 1,450 hits so the news that 'flamenco is dying' is spreading fast.

In response I would say that when I have been to flamenco events in Madrid I have been one of only a handful of foreigners so the claim that Spaniards are not interested in Flamenco and cant afford to go to flamenco places does not ring true. I suspect they are talking specifically about tourist shows which of course would not interest the locals. If there are fewer tourist shows it may be that tourists are discerning and are not convinced that they are getting the real thing in these tablaos.

Last night in Granada I went to the 20th Flamenco Festival of the Albaicin. The audience was overwhelmingly Gitano, Spanish and a handful of foreigners, most of us Albaicin residents. A great concert by the way with four dancers , EL Farruco, Juan Andrés Maya, Juan de Juan and Luis de Luis accompanied by singers and guitars it was absolutely traditional, apart from the one cajon hidden in the background and hardly heard over the dancers. All the dancers were around 30 or younger as I suspect were most of the singers. Hardly a dying art. At the fin de fiesta one of the singer's daughter came on stage, a tiny thing about 5 or 6 and as she danced the people cried out " Que arte", she was amazing to watch. And by the way the audience was crammed with young people. A little girl of about two sat in front of me and clapped through the two hour ( maybe more) show.

The comment by Flamenco-world's critic that flamenco had failed to reach new audiences seems at odds with the comments that half the dance schools are filled with foreigners and half the hits on her website are from abroad. Are these notn ew audiences ? And I dont see how "Flamenco is distancing itself from young people and they are the ones who can keep it alive," as if Flamenco were a force in itself instead of an artform practised by people. From what I see all the old flamencos do nothing but encourage the youngsters.

The comments from Ortega about how hard it is to survive professionally as a flamenco artist can be said about almost all creative pursuits professionally, artists, rock musician, writers etc. Flamenco does recieve national and local support with arts councils specifically giving grants to flamenco companies. The Agencia para el Desarollo de Flamenco was founded specifically to do this. And what about Ortega's comment about foreigners liking flamenco more than Spaniards as they dont have social prejudices against Gypsies !!!! I think we can take her comments with a pinch of bitter salt.

And as for the guitar builder who does not take orders from Spaniards, perhaps his prices are too high and only foreigners will pay that. Maybe Stephen or Anders will make a comment on how many guitars if any they build for Spanish people as opposed to foreigners.

Another thought is that of the many people I know who sing/dance etc many are not professional performers but do it for enjoyment. Flamenco is an art, a way of life, not strictly a profession. In times gone past ( like with footballers) and still today flamencos have day jobs.

Oh well seem to have had my morning rant
Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 11:45:28
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to Kate

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kate
When I googled " Spain Frets about Flamenco" it got 1,450 hits


A few hours later and this is now gets 2,200 some newspapers changing the headline to "Flamenco is now a dying art in Spain" a statement which did not appear anywhere in the original article.

I know I'm sitting here replying to myself, can they lock you up for that or certify you mad ? I'm feeling a bit mad as it goes.

I've lived in Granada for ten years now. Time goes fast when you're having fun. Last night I watched a friend of mine who I first met when he was about 14 ' El Moreno' a brilliant percussionist who has been in steady employment as a flamenco artist since I met him. Other young professionals also spring to mind whose careers I have watched blossom, Sergio (hijo del Colorado), Fuensanta la Moneta, El Cheyenne, Julian, Patricia Guerrero, Juan Pinilla, Ana Calí and these are just people I know never mind the hundreds of others around the country. I dont doubt that flamenco has changed in many ways over the last hundred years but to annouce its death in Spain is a trifle premature, if not sensationalist. Still the article is obviously selling all over the world and will no doubt be quoted and misquoted for years to come.

kate

_____________________________

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http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 16:23:57
 
eccullen

 

Posts: 98
Joined: Aug. 14 2007
 

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to Kate

[Oh well seem to have had my morning rant][/quote]

... but a very lucid one.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 16:32:27
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to Kate

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kate

Last night in Granada I went to the 20th Flamenco Festival of the Albaicin. The audience was overwhelmingly Gitano, Spanish and a handful of foreigners, most of us Albaicin residents. A great concert by the way with four dancers , EL Farruco, Juan Andrés Maya, Juan de Juan and Luis de Luis accompanied by singers and guitars it was absolutely traditional


Hey Kate. I was going to do a post about this but you beat me to it. Wasn't it jaw dropping? It went on for about 2 and a half hours but the time just melted. The audience at times seemed more like a world wrestling crowd than concert audience!! I had only seen juan de juan before but Luis de luis was stunning. Also was treat to see juan andres maya with Emilio maya and rafael habichuela as backing guitarists.

It is a fair comment that locals will not go and see flamenco in local tablaos. The drinks are usually watered down, over priced and the quality of flamenco is bad.
Listening to some drunk has-been singing "una paloma blanca" on a 5 string guitar is not my idea or the locals of flamenco (although that is worst example and not all of them are bad)
The fact is that far from dying, more in people both in spain and outside of spain are into Flamenco than ever before. Audiences are ever growing and more kids are learning flamenco arts. There are more dance schools and flamenco schools than ever before. Spain now has conservatories of flamenco in madrid and cordoba. More are planned in the major cities and flamenco can be studied at universities in spain as a musical or performance art. Vicente Amigo has platinum selling albums and even won a Grammy! This does not sound to me like a dying art form.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 18:58:43
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to Pimientito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito
Wasn't it jaw dropping? It went on for about 2 and a half hours but the time just melted. The audience at times seemed more like a world wrestling crowd than concert audience!!


Well they can take the Albaicin Festival out of the Albaicin but the Albaicineros carried on as if it was their own backyard anyway. At the beginning when all the dancers came out together I thought there was going to be a riot ! I just loved......well all of it actually but particulalry Farucco and his singers and spontaneity. Had to laugh at the end when the lights came up and Farruco grabs the mike and says " What about the fin de fiesta" It was obvious the concert owners wanted everyone out of there !! And so glad the Fin de Fiesta went ahead, or else there really would have been a riot.

Thought you might be there, sorry to have missed you in the maddening crowd, we must get together. Are you in Granada tomorrow, fancy a tapa ?

And yes agree 100% with your comments above on flamenco gaining in popularity. I dont know what the writer of that article was thinking about, money probably and everyone seems quite happy to reprint the article without checking any facts.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 19:20:43
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to jrabbani

quote:

Master guitar-maker Arcangel Fernandez has stopped taking orders....

However, the aficionados buying his coveted €9,000 (US$13,000) instruments are not local musicians but Japanese collectors.

Fifteen years ago, Fernandez, who makes an average of eight guitars a year, decided to work exclusively for foreigners. Now, he doesn't even raise the metal shutters of his shop when he is inside toiling away....



Well that's news!

When I passed by Arcangel's shop a few times back in 1976, I thought it was always closed as the shutters were always down.
One day I tried the door handle and found that it was open.
Quite small, dingy and old fashioned inside.
This middle aged man in a brown overall appeared from the back of the shop.
I asked him if he had any guitars for sale and he shook his head.
I asked him if he could make a guitar for me if I left a deposit.
Again he shook his head, saying that all his customers are Japanese and he already had more than a 2 year waiting list.

That was 1976...Not 15 years ago!
(But if it's in the newspaper then it MUST be true. )

cheers,

Ron

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 20:13:56
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to eccullen

quote:

ORIGINAL: eccullen

[Oh well seem to have had my morning rant]
... but a very lucid one.


Hey thank you , can you tell that to my husband

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 21:58:15
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: archangel fernandez and foreigners (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
he shook his head, saying that all his customers are Japanese and he already had more than a 2 year waiting list.

That was 1976...Not 15 years ago!
(But if it's in the newspaper then it MUST be true. )

cheers,

Ron



Je je je we're on the case here at the foro, watch out anyone who wants to pull the wool over our eyes as to what's true or not.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2007 22:01:23
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