Carbon fiber

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Carbon fiber

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Martin

Posts: 150
Joined: Nov. 21 2004

Carbon fiber

Just to satisfy my curiosity, would it be possible to make a complete carbon fiber guitar. I know it has been used for bracing before

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2007 17:28:22

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

I don't see why not. Check this out.

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Guitars/Special/Graphite/graphite.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2007 18:04:13

Guest

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

Hola
It has been done, not once but many times:

e.g. http://www.compositeacoustics.com/press.html

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2007 19:44:48

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

yes. enitrely. there are many brands that do so. CA composite acoustics and Rainsong are two of the most popular.

I have played a ca, it was...... less than inspiring, it had a neat chimey voice, but no character. probably indestructable though lol.

interesting article on the maker of rainsong guitars

ca guitars

rainsong

my concern would be how much energy is generated with nylon strings... will it actually be enough to get anything good out of the carbon.... i see only steel string full on 100% carbon graphite guitars, whether thats because of the maketplace and classical/flamenco players not wanting carbon or because nylon isnt a good candidate... i don't know.

emerald guitars

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2007 20:00:27

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to HemeolaMan)

My advice is...Keep your Carbon Thumbprint low these days or the Tree Huggers will get you!

cheers,

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2007 20:47:27

guitardode

Posts: 114
Joined: Jun. 29 2007

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

hi
think we should stick to wood sounds natural yes? if we want to break the land speed record on a wheeled guitar ok!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2007 14:30:06

MarTay6

Posts: 69
Joined: Jul. 10 2011

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

I was going to post this same question, but searched/found someone had asked the same question. My thoughts were that C/F would be good for the back/sides, still using the traditional wood soundboard. Goal= a lighter-weight guitar with still the wood-generated tone from the wood soundboard.
I'm surprised no one referenced Torres' paper mache' guitar, built to prove much of the tone of a guitar came from the soundboard.
Wes

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2011 12:21:38

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

I have played a ca, it was...... less than inspiring, it had a neat chimey voice, but no character. probably indestructable though lol.

Yeah but you could play in the shower or on surfboard out in the waves.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2011 13:05:58

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

Years ago there was a claim according to which a carbon violine could outperform a highly deemed traditional specimen. There was a public auditioning test announced for soemtine in 2009 I think, but I don´t know what became of it.

I think the reason for current demand with instruments of carbon fibre could be:

#
Durability, like for live performance and travelling.

#
Immunity against humidity, for use in extremely dry or humid climate like in Arizona, Canada, much of Middle East or at coastal lines.

While for the future, it could be simply for lack of wood ressource. ( Provided the muse for art still being alive in a situation of struggling for survival.)

All in all I sense good reason for developers trying to achieve decent sound properties with CF.
And I think to see how they might succeed by the means of high tech analysis and construction.

Just remember what you must have thought of laser and CD, digital photography or flatscreens. At least for three of the four, I recall very well how they were estimated as either incapable on principle or as yet taking decades of R&D to gain useful state. But they outperformed the common prediction by far.

Hell, I wanted to ask my old lady to buy microsoft shares for me in the late seventies, only that in the end didn´t dare to suggest to her investing 30 grands ( of DM ) or so into apparent "gimmicks" like computer / software.
[ Who bought in for only 5 grands yet in the mid eighties, is a billionaire today.]

This is not to undervalue the magic properties of sound wood, but to say that CF instruments might currently be where mobile phones used to be in 1980 or so.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2011 13:06:26

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

It's being used for soundboards in some very high end pianos like Steingraeber Phoenix. They're getting rave reviews for volume, projection, clarity and color.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2011 14:35:48

MarTay6

Posts: 69
Joined: Jul. 10 2011

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

Another thought occurred to me that one place a carbon fiber component might really benefit an otherwise wood structured guitar is in the bridge. Luthiers try to keep bridges light in weight... a C/F bridge wound never split, the saddle slot could be held to tighter fits with the saddle due to lack of expansion/contraction. Additionally, the bottom could be machined to the radius of the domed top, so that it would not add stress to the construction. I would think the very light weight of a C/F bridge would be conducive to better tone in an otherwise all-wood guitar.
Wes

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 22:25:17

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to MarTay6)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarTay6

Additionally, the bottom could be machined to the radius of the domed top, so that it would not add stress to the construction. I would think the very light weight of a C/F bridge would be conducive to better tone in an otherwise all-wood guitar.
Wes

Most guitar makers don't have access to the kind of machinery it would take to shape carbon fiber (it eats sandpaper). The other question I have is about weight. Is carbon fiber really lighter than wood? The stuff I have used didn't seem extraordinarily light. I personally wouldn't want a guitar with a bridge that looks like an F117. But what do I know...I'm so old and out of touch that I don't even have a cell phone (or want one).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 23:49:52

BarkellWH

Posts: 3464
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

But what do I know...I'm so old and out of touch that I don't even have a cell phone (or want one).

It has long been rumored, John, that there are precisely five people in the entire world who do not carry or own cell phones. I knew that I was one of the five, and now with your post, I know who the second one is. I wonder if we will ever discover the other three?!

Cheers,

Bill

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 1:07:45

MarTay6

Posts: 69
Joined: Jul. 10 2011

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

If they made a cell phone with a dial on it, I'd have one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 1:35:53

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

They have been making carbon fiber everything- basically just using the the same techniques that are used to make carbon fiber instrument cases.

Personally I don't care for the sound of these CB cellos.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 2:19:56

erictjie

Posts: 163
Joined: Apr. 11 2011

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

i own a blackbird carbon classical guitar, it is very loud and responsive and i let my 1 year old son to start playing with it and it will be his by 2 years old. it is durable basically undestructable.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 2:25:27

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

I personally wouldn't want a guitar with a bridge that looks like an F117. But what do I know...I'm so old and out of touch that I don't even have a cell phone (or want one).

I guess you and Bill don't get many booty calls. But then neither do I and I have a cell phone.

I also have a dial phone in my house. I love using it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 3:54:44

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

I refused cell phones too ( friends wanted to give me such as present several times ). Only got me one when moved abroad, as a support in case of getting lost in unfamiliar areas.

Besides: The papers were reporting on first youngsters who quit mobile phones, as constant availability was getting pesky, and especially ruining couple´s relationships.

That was even before GPS tracking.

Ruphus

PS:
Saw a homeless two days ago, dragging his belongings on a trolley while talking into a cell phone.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 11:48:31

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

For a homeless person a cell phone could mean life and death, it keeps them connected which is important. But GPS tracking of your person is odious.

A cell phone is really a tool, but some people get addicted to the other aspects of the cell phone, just like the addictions to email and flamenco forums.

What I really need is a cello phone.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2011 17:04:33

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Carbon fiber (in reply to Martin)

I like that section about the bridge making. That was informative. Also, good to see a bench thats been properly used and has a ton of dog holes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 1 2011 4:01:03