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RE: black people (in reply to Fitna A.

Celia Morales is a professional player, not a foreign aficionado. This week is the National Congress of Flamenco, held in Cádiz. On Tuesday she accompanied Mariana Cornejo and Carmen de la Jara.

Sean
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:05:19
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: black people (in reply to gardenshed

there is one black dude playing , i saw him on myspace, i havent heard him.

tryed to say hello once first time i added him as a friend, i was so happy, a black guitarist on my list !! how cool ! but he never replied so that was the end of our special 5 minute relationship

now that i think of it mibe i shouldnt have my email with " OMG Youre BACK!! COOL ..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:31:12
 
Florian

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RE: black people (in reply to Ron.M

Romanza is female !!!?? Omg.. i am so sorry, i think i called you "mate" so many times before

apologies

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:36:54

JBASHORUN

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:39:58
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
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From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: black people (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

Btw, I can think of at least one black Flamenco... "La Negra" (cantaor):


YEAH ! and Pata Negra !

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:44:00

JBASHORUN

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:47:24
 
Florian

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From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: black people (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

But maybe your comment was intended to be humourous?



it was just a litlle play on words I am shocked.. that joke usually kills at partyes...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:48:42
 
Ricardo

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RE: black people (in reply to Guest

Sorry Koella, but I think the initial question is kind of silly. I mean, do you have lots of black friends? Same thing like "why aren't there more women guitarists and male dancers" etc, etc. People simply are into whatever they are into, and what their friends are into, etc. Why don't more Asians dance salsa??? No need for ethnic and sex diversity in all aspects of life. I mean somethings are just obvious.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:52:43

JBASHORUN

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:54:20
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
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From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: black people (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

"why aren't there more women guitarists


ops, i gues that answers the next question i was gonna ask

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 18:55:51
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: black people (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

Hey, maybe you're right, and she's not really of Afro-Carribean descent... I was just assuming she was from her appearance, hairstyle and name... but these things are not always accurate indications of where someone is from. So if she isn't, consider the statement retracted.


JBASHORUN
I really dont know and i dont care... my joke was built purely around the word " Negra"... no insinuations or hidden contradictions

Youre giving me too much credit

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 19:00:08
 
Jenny

 

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From: Oxford, UK

RE: black people (in reply to Guest

Back to the female thing - I'm a female and am learning flamenco guitar, and I have a female friend who's learning in Oxford too, so there's two more for you. Both not black though! Silly thread (sorry Koella)...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 19:52:23
 
XXX

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RE: black people (in reply to Guest

I have the album of Negra. Its sounds more like nuevo. There is only one palo, Solea por B. She moans sometimes. But if you want moaning i can recommand you some other albums, ehem.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 19:59:20
 
koella

Posts: 2194
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From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Ron.M

A f*ck you all.
I didn't pull this dead horse out of the foro ditch. So you don't have to pick on me. I think this was the most satisfying answer back then :

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
I reckon black folks in general have enough of a cultural identity to draw on rather than having to dabble in other folks culture.
In fact it's mainly the white culture that seeks out the exotic to draw on musical inventiveness.

cheers


So my next question is: Why are so few asian people dancing salsa ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 20:47:03
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to koella

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 22:38:33
 
koella

Posts: 2194
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From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Guest

A man's got to do what he's got to do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2007 23:03:10
 
gato

Posts: 322
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RE: black people (in reply to Guest

'Coastal Natives in California, 'a lot of people who have lost their cultural and racial idenity, play the flamenco. Are credited as 'not in existance' in some areas. Funny, if you think racial biases have stricken blacks off the record, wait until you get over here! I mean, it's really kind of sick how people believe sheer utter nonsense. Of course blacks are into the flamenco! How can this thread even question such a thing? Women play the flamenco guitar. There are a lot of people all over the world.....
Gary,
California
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 4:40:54
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
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From: Chicago

RE: black people (in reply to koella

I know a girl who is black and dances flamenco.

In chicago I met a couple of fellas who write reggaeton and rap, and they listen to a **** load of flamenco. I'm writing some "phat beats" for them.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 7:02:01
 
koella

Posts: 2194
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From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Guest

@gato and hemeola: This is so funny.
I'm waiting for the ultimate political-correct post now that says: "where I come from, all black people play flamenco guitar"

Btw. I hope you all got this : with black people I meant people who come from Africa only. I had to erase the word "negro"in the thread title, because it's a bad term in English, and noone knew a satisfying replacement.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 7:52:54
 
gato

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RE: black people (in reply to koella

Ok, but it's just the thing when people say all people do, or no people do that is over generalizing. My point is that Native Americans play and have played the flamenco, which is categorically denied by a lot of people. It always makes me feel strange to see that. I wonder how blacks must feel. You know, the world is getting smaller as it's said often.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 8:30:40
 
Florian

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From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: black people (in reply to gato

quote:

My point is that Native Americans play and have played the flamenco,

Indians ?

I am not sure if this is part of another thread but i dont know anything about it, who plays flamenco and who is denied ?

Not familliar with this, who are you refering too ?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 9:22:12
 
koella

Posts: 2194
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From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to gato

quote:

ORIGINAL: gato

Ok, but it's just the thing when people say all people do, or no people do that is over generalizing.


I'm not generalizing. I don't know any African or Afro-american playin g flamenco.
I don't see them on youtube, I don't see them on the foro. I don't know of anyone who made a cd.

I'm just noticing that, and it made me wonder.

Sure there will be some excentrics who do but in general I think I'm right.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 10:57:16
 
gato

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RE: black people (in reply to koella

That's O.K.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2007 17:23:24
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14902
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: black people (in reply to koella

quote:

I'm not generalizing. I don't know any African or Afro-american playin g flamenco.
I don't see them on youtube, I don't see them on the foro. I don't know of anyone who made a cd.

I'm just noticing that, and it made me wonder.

Sure there will be some excentrics who do but in general I think I'm right.


Sorry that some one dug up your dead horse. But it was a good question anyway, or at least it points to an important point. I think you ARE generalizing because it is rare to find NON SPANISH PEOPLE playing flamenco. Non gypsy, non andaluz, non spanish, non european etc etc, further away from Jerez, the less you find. Of course Japanese people are big aficionados of EVERYTHING. So you find japanese metal guitarists, flamenco dancers and singers, andes style charango MASTERS, etc. in japan. So count them OUT. Why is it that HOLLAND there are lots of flamenco guitarists? My theory is because of Rotterdam and Paco Pena's school. There is a reason for it. In USA you have some people in certain areas into flamenco, and LOTS of the guitar enthusiasts worship Diego del Gastor thanks to Don Pohren. There is always a reason for some weird phenomenon like a certain group or local area of people are into flamenco in unusually high numbers.

OK, so since you are in Holland, and you ASKED, I ask again, how many black or african or "afro-american" people are your FRIENDS and collegues? Would you say 50% of the people you work with or live in your neighbor hood ARE black? If so, I would understand why you are wondering why not a lot of black folks are into flamenco, considering it is strange how MANY dutch are into flamenco relative to other non spaniards.

I live in DC. MOST of the people living near me are afro american. At least 50 percent. And many in or around places I work. I have some black friends. I personally know or have met about 4 black women who dance flamenco, one black male plays flamenco guitar, and I mean in compas some of Nunez falsetas and others of encuentro, and even one black male Flamenco singer who also dances very well bulerias and sevillanas. And I have met many other enthusiasts or students of flamenco guitar and dance that are black.

I also know many white eruopeans doing flamenco, latino or latin American, a few spanish, Asian, filipino, Persian, turkish, greek, two from Trinidad (who might be considered black or jamaican though more blood from INDIA), even native american. In fact, my best friend is a great Rumbero and flamenco singer and is Bolivian Indian. There are more of non spanish than spanish doing flamenco in my area. The percentages actually work out based on how many different groups of people there are.

Based on my sampling of different ethnic groups involved in flamenco, I could waste everyones time and give my generalzations on how each group is doing compas wise, but I dont' really think it is fair. Understand, that it is a very small sampling of people that are into flamenco. So why not MORE PEOPLE into flamenco is the real question I think?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 5:37:00
 
hamia

 

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004
 

RE: black people (in reply to koella

quote:

ORIGINAL: koella

So my next question is: Why are so few asian people dancing salsa ?



Actually Latin American style dancing is now becoming very popular in China. There are dance classes in every small town and it's common to see it on TV and also in public parks (dancing/exercising in parks is something of a Chinese tradition).
So it probably won't be long before there are more salsa dancers in Asia than in the rest of the world put together!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 11:57:27
 
el ted

 

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RE: black people (in reply to Guest

.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 13:43:33
 
koella

Posts: 2194
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From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Guest

Wow, you're the only black guy out there ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 13:48:18
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I think you ARE generalizing because it is rare to find NON SPANISH PEOPLE playing flamenco. Non gypsy, non andaluz, non spanish, non european etc etc, further away from Jerez, the less you find.


Here in Holland there are many people who play/dance flamenco. No black people. And I know few black people. Some bass players and percussion players. All from Suriname, which is a former Dutch colony ( english ? ). They are not interested in flamenco however they find the rhythm of it interesting.

quote:

Why is it that HOLLAND there are lots of flamenco guitarists? My theory is because of Rotterdam and Paco Pena's school. There is a reason for it.


I think the reason Paco Pena came to the Rotterdam conservatory is because flamenco was already very vivid in Holland then. Due to many spanish guestworkers here. And vice versa Spain has always been the favourite holiday destination for most Dutch people.

quote:

OK, so since you are in Holland, and you ASKED, I ask again, how many black or african or "afro-american" people are your FRIENDS and collegues? Would you say 50% of the people you work with or live in your neighbor hood ARE black? If so, I would understand why you are wondering why not a lot of black folks are into flamenco, considering it is strange how MANY dutch are into flamenco relative to other non spaniards.


No I guess 15 percent of the people I know is afro/indonesian/surinam.
But I still haven't seen/met/heard of an afro who plays flamenco.
I know a very fine Afro percussion player here. He teaches at Amsterdam conservatory ( Kenrick Gunther, look him up ). When I talk with him about flamenco, he's interested, but always starts to talk me in, you know...latin stuff, traditional south-american string instruments.


quote:

So why not MORE PEOPLE into flamenco is the real question I think?


Nono, it's just a prejudice from my side. I think, hey, rhythm...africa....flamenco's messing around with afican music and vice versa....the step for an African picking up a flamenco guitar should be smaller then for a white ass eskimo like meself.

But yes, that's another generalisation. I guess you are right. It's a silly question, sorry. Afro's don't need other cultures.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 22:08:38
 
John O.

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From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: black people (in reply to John O.

My brother in law studied ethnology and was telling me about one of his projects being dances in different cultures and how the movements in the dances fit exactly to typical movements and customs in their daily life...

Anyways, I'm sticking with what I wrote already

quote:


Seriously though, look at US blacks dance, look at South Americans AND South Africans dance - the loose groove they have when they let go and shake it that other cultures just don't have. It just isn't like flamenco. Not better, not worse, just different. Flamenco isn't loose like that. If you look at a rumba or a guajira though you can see how the dancers can get those hips going - those are South American influenced though.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 22:32:22
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Guest

They could adapt flamenco and transform it to loose hip standards, but they are just not interested.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2007 23:12:50
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