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Arpegios hand/arm position   You are logged in as Guest
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Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

Arpegios hand/arm position 

I have recently given more attention on my right hand playing position.
There have been many words said about picado hand position, but not for arpegio so much.
I noticed that I've been holding my forearm similar to Javier conde's position.

He's got quite some space between his forearm and the top of the guitar. (best seen in first 30 secs of the vid).
But checking videos of Paco, Gerardo, Vicente etc. I noticed they hold their forearm closer to the top, (almost) parallel to it, with less space between arm-top.


It's also true that all of them (Javier and other 3) play picado AND arpegio with the same or very simiar forehand position. If they play picado with forearm near the top, they play arpegios alike. And other way round.

So, how do you teachers here teach your students to hold their arm/hand? Does it matter at all?

Matic

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2007 11:59:21
 
Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
 

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Hi Matic,
That is a good question and I would like to, if you do not mind, develop it somewhat...When completing arpegios should the fingers be at a right angle to the guitars top? I appear to have developed a style whereas my fingers almost point towards 4 o'clock.
Perhaps somebody has some video/instruction as to what is the best playing position for the right arm and hand.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2007 13:26:29
 
frhout

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

His fingers for picado are very straight as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2007 15:31:58
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

I just wanted to tell people that also struggle with similar problem, that I've changed my arpegio-hand-position in Paco-Vicente-Tomatito-Gerardo-like and it has been a great improvement. Try forcing your forearm closer to top as long as it becomes a natural position. First week or two it might be hard to play like that, but I guarantee that you will feel the difference later. I can play better now and feel better(my hand looks like Tomatitos wiii).

Good luck.
Matic

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2007 18:17:14
 
paco picado

 

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RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Arpegio speed amd dexterity all depends on the lengh of your forearm, hand shape and finger lengh, there is no perfect way. Some guitarists like Jose Antonio Rodrigues, has a very flat palm to the guitar sound board, others like Paco Pena has a more arched hand shape, also does Manola Sanlucar, its good to experiment but there are no rules.
Picado
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2007 19:22:00
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Thank you for your reply!
I guess it's true what you wrote. I notice Gerardo has quite short forearm compared to mine so I can't place my hand just like he does. I wonder if he's shorter. Ricardo, how tall is Gerardo?
Yes, it is good to experiment. But it's also good to force yourself playing in an unnatural position copying maestros which can later result in a succes. It's like with picado I guess. Noone feels comfortable with Paco's mid-joint position at first.

Matic

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2007 20:47:35

ToddK

 

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RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Also, i believe the tone you're going for affects the angle as well.

Javier gets a very crisp sound with that steep angle. VERY crisp.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2007 22:19:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13232
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to ToddK

You guys are looking at the forearm, but the thing about it is the wrist, because of the way the fingers play. Javier has straight fingers, thumb under the hand, and the result is an arched wrist. Totally legit way to play, obviously. Many players play that way, or shift there hand depending on the technique. The other guys mentioned, have a straight wrist cocked to the side, but the fingers have to play bent and the thumb toward the sound hole. When you get used to that, it feels good, but it is not necessarily the BEST way to do it. Some one said Manolo Sanlucar has a more arched wrist than others, I disagree. He has the same straight wrist, bent fingers etc as Paco, Gerardo, vicente etc...



quote:

Ricardo, how tall is Gerardo?


I will measure him this july.

Nah he is around 5 10.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2007 3:36:42
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

quote:

You guys are looking at the forearm, but the thing about it is the wrist, because of the way the fingers play.

Yes yes, of course it is about the wrist, but if you change the wrist position, you normally move the whole forearm, no?
So, Javier's thumb is arpegio-ing and pulgar-ing in a same/similar position, while "the other guys" play arpegios with the side of their thumbs. Yes?

quote:

Nah he is around 5 10.

So...as a European, I suppose this are feet.
But if 1 feet is 30.48cm, he's (if you meant 5.10 feet) 155 cm long. and that's pretty damn short. I think I messed something up.

Matic

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2007 9:55:21
 
rombsix

Posts: 7602
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Actually Matic, 5'10" means that he is 5 feet and 10 inches tall. A foot is equal to 12 inches, and each inch is 2.54 cm. Therefore, Gerardo (according to Ricardo) is 70 inches tall, making him 177.8 cm tall.



PS: Paco Pena might be 155 cm tall. He looked pretty short when I attended his concert a while back.

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Ramzi

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2007 13:22:50
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Why don't we all just use centimetres?
Thanks, Ramzi!
So, then I'm...
[calculator]183...weee...wooo...=6'0''[/calculator]
-> six feet long!
Amazing.

Matic

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2007 14:58:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13232
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

quote:

Javier's thumb is arpegio-ing and pulgar-ing in a same/similar position, while "the other guys" play arpegios with the side of their thumbs. Yes?


No. He still has to change postition to play pulgar like anyone else. But if you visual focus is only on the FOREARM, then you miss everything going!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2007 15:59:42
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

Ok.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2007 16:18:19
 
andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

it is like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss out on all that heavenly glory...



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 28 2007 1:52:27
 
cneberg

Posts: 257
Joined: Apr. 20 2006
From: Sončno polje pri Večnosti

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

quote:

I just wanted to tell people that also struggle with similar problem, that I've changed my arpegio-hand-position in Paco-Vicente-Tomatito-Gerardo-like and it has been a great improvement. Try forcing your forearm closer to top as long as it becomes a natural position. First week or two it might be hard to play like that, but I guarantee that you will feel the difference later. I can play better now and feel better(my hand looks like Tomatitos wiii).

Good luck.
Matic


That's ok, but I noticed that I'm facing different problems now. The thing is that in this position It's very hard for me to hit the string with thumbnail. So if I have to use thumb more often (in certain arpeggio patterns, not basic pami or pima), my hand gets "cramped" quite fast. I don't know if you know what I mean. Ricardo probably knows. Maybe I should have Moraito's type of thumbnail. Some kind of claw
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 28 2007 12:50:59
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Matic

What do you mean with "cramped"?
If I get what you are saying, a different nailshape will do.
Or, as always, practice.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 28 2007 13:16:12
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13232
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to cneberg

quote:

That's ok, but I noticed that I'm facing different problems now. The thing is that in this position It's very hard for me to hit the string with thumbnail. So if I have to use thumb more often (in certain arpeggio patterns, not basic pami or pima), my hand gets "cramped" quite fast. I don't know if you know what I mean. Ricardo probably knows. Maybe I should have Moraito's type of thumbnail. Some kind of claw


Well, if you get some good video footage that shows reall good close up side view, you will notice that when playing arps, little and sometimes NO nail hits the string when it is off the side. It is not so important. The important thing is the REST the thumb after it plays this way, and you let all the tension go by resting. Notice the SOUND of the bass notes when the fingers are playing arps, compared to when one plays ONLY pulgar. Very different sound. So don't worry so much about getting a sharp naily sound when doing arps.

Now the thing is Tremolo, you really want the bass notes coming out clear. Notice how PDL's tremolo hand position is little different than his arp or picado position. Just enough so the thumb attacks a bit straighter to bring out the important bass line melody.



Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 29 2007 14:59:00
 
cneberg

Posts: 257
Joined: Apr. 20 2006
From: Sončno polje pri Večnosti

RE: Arpegios hand/arm position (in reply to Ricardo

So I guess it's the same if you play certain difficult arppegios. Like "Guardian Angels" or similar stuff in different timing, where thumb works more.

I guess the main thing is to plant good with a,m and i. Then everything goes well.

Thanks for all your advices, tips! Thank God (or whoever) you're here.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 29 2007 16:33:50
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