RE: Music Question

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RE: Music Question

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Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 25 2006

RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)

Dominic, with respect - that's not right

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 2:28:33

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Music Question (in reply to gt)

"Carpo"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 3:00:30

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Music Question (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Thanks All -

Especially Tom and Henrik for providing material! Which actually addressed
the question I asked anyhow. Carp, huh, how'd that enter into this???? :)

Ricardo, actually you're suggestion is valid. Repetition, and practice is a
good idea. I tend to play a lot of improvisational type stuff, and I find that
with a Bulerias type rhythm for example while it's pretty easy to stay on
the beat, I have a hard time keeping track of which beat I'm on. So I have
stop, and listen, and let the metronome come around again and restart.
Since I'm only playing by myself with a metronome it can be a challenge.

Then about the chords, I think the stuff I just got should help. Basically what
I was getting at is say for example I'm playing basically A, Bb in a Bulerias
then if for example I play a Dm, and a C, does that mean something? Is it
like a signal that something is about to change in the Bulerias? (i.e. like the
tune is about to end), or is it simply just a change in chords?

About getting a teacher - This forum, books, and dvd's are my teacher. I have
two kids, a wife, a dog, an old house with plumbing issues, not to mention
a job. My free time is pretty limited.

Is anybody on the list in Chicago per chance???

quote:

You really have to establish which species of carp you are dealing with. Some are palatable some are not.... some are poisonous , all are bad when off. All of my friends threw up.

This is simply NOT true. Poisonous? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carp

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 14:36:17

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Music Question (in reply to gt)

Ever eaten a three week old fish.

Anyway sorry if I have been mucking you about and here is some practical advice which will really help the specific problem which you are defining. When you start to play you lose contact with the metronome and you need to stop altogether to get back.

Great you have a really great description of your exact problem there. Now here is a recipe for fixing that.

Take a two compas figure and play with a metronome ( or even better and much less boring a plamas loop ) only the first note in each compas. During the rest of the time you are working on your listening skills and keeping your place.

Next note of the first compass leaving the second compas alone.
Add the rest of the notes one at a time until you have filled it up.
But keep the second compas blank.

When you have filled it all up leave the first compas blank and add one note at a time to the second until it fills.

Now this takes loads of time but you will calibrate your technique and awareness during the time that you are not playing whilst buliding up your a ability to play in compass gradually. Its like your building up your concentration muscles.

If you follow this approach with some tabs you have you will see the chord changes emerging from the music.

It's like if you draw a tree the first thing you give it is an overall shape. If you start drawing one leaf and then another then when you step back and look you will have a really distorted picture. Thing is once they are in place you might not want to rub them out and start again so the whole thing ends up a mess of corrections the big picture is still hopelessly out of shape.

I played like this for years and a big part of the problem was that I wanted to hold onto the belief that things just needed tweeking when they needed completely redrafted.

I hope that is more helpful.

David.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 19:18:19

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Music Question (in reply to Francisco)

quote:

"Carpo"

Thanks samwise,
That cheered me up a lot as I am suffering from a most long lasting flu at the moment and hardly have the energy to read most posts, let alone add to them.

How about a carpo on the third fret of a Sanchis Carpio guitar (with a fish headstock)?

Forgive me folks, I'm off to bed 'cos I feel like crap (which is also an anagram of carp).

See you later,

Ron

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 19:54:32

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Music Question (in reply to guitarbuddha)

No, but I have eaten fresh Carp, and being an ex-elitist fisherman
will say, that skeptical as I was. They taste just fine. Lot's of bones.
Now, you're saying you have eaten three week old fish? So based
on this display judgement I should willingly take your advice??? :)
You're not an Icelander, per chance? I understand they have some
favorite rotten fish dishes.

That seems a reasonable idea, I'll give it a shot and see what happens.
It makes me think that if something is written in 3/4 an idea might be
to practice playing just every other bar as well with the space in between
reserved to resync the brain.

Thanks!

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 19:56:45

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ron.M)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 19:59:43

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Music Question (in reply to gt)

I still dont get the carp story!!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 20:14:18

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Music Question (in reply to gt)

Please recover quick Ron. I miss you here.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2007 21:12:58

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)

Well all my friends threw up so I suppose digesting rotten carp can be dangerous. Maybe it wasn't such a good judgement call. I'll have to make them something really nice to make up for that.

Hi there Jeff, you've gotten it there ,resyncing the brain I like that.

If you dont mind though here is some more advice, just because something says that it is in 3/4 doesnt mean that it is. A soleares compas lasts twelve beats and it can be divided in lots of ways here are two common ones.

1) Am (3/4), G (3/4) F (3/4 ) E (3/4 )
2) Am (2/4) G (3/4) F (4/4) E (3/4)
It is important to set up the whole compass. Also it is a really good idea to hear the harmonic journey so best to leave in something of the second compas ( or bar if you want ) to help with your ear training and understanding of the harmony.

Now in both of these systems what is really important is the arrival on the fourth bar ( beats 10,11 and 12 ) of the compas.
Now you could practice ANY chord progression and it would be in compass. So for Soleares you could transpose the andalucian cadence to any key ( Ie Por arriba Dm C7 Bb Ab9 )

That could be written simplu thus.

D C7 Bb A .

This makes it fit into a four square grid like jazz harmony. You can choose which system of downbeats to interpret this with.

Also you can Abbreviate or extend the sequence F F F E
E F F E
F E F E

You can also take more time with it.

Am Am Am G
G G G F
F F F E
Remate. ie ( Am C F6 E )
Notice when there is a slow rate of chordal change significant harmonic events take place on ten and not on one where they would be expected to in baroque classical or jazz harmony.

Looking again at that traditional remate you see that C has replaced G on the way to F this is a borrowing from the cycle of fifths ( c is the secondary dominant to F ).

What I really like to do is to state one whole compas of chords and try and realise that harmony through improvisation. I dont really spend much time learning other peoples music anymore.

Regards
David.

PS if you are looking at Alegrias compass strummig at all then the second system ( 2/4,3/4,4/4,3/4) is pretty universal .
To morph into buleria ( traditional two phrase compass ) take the last beat ( 12 from the final three four and add it to the two four at the start )

it becomes 3/4,3/4,2/4,2/4,2/4.

Now if your tablature or score says it is all in three four its gonna be difficult to do anything other than learn the piece all in a oner but if you are aware of which beats are the downbeats and where the harmony actually falls then it is much eaiser to work on the music as a sketch first filling in the notes after the compass of the harmony is learned.

For bulerias this is really common
BbBbBbA
AA Bb A

Also all of the ones I mentioned for Solea fit well but in A.

For alegrias you are in a major key if you exchange Am,G7,F,E for E A B7 E then you can use all of the above for alegrias.

This makes it I IV V I,
you can extend it the same ways E E E A
A A A B
B B B E
Remte.

You can exchange C# minor for E at will also
F#m for A . These will make it sound more modern or jazzy.
Also B7 can be replaced with a trition substitution of F7b5 making it sound kind of jazzy ( think Nunez in latin mode. )

Sorry for going on but I hope that I wish someone had told me this years ago.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2007 0:12:40

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Music Question (in reply to gt)

David - Thanks Much! Based on what you're saying, I think a usefull thing is
to just practice using a sparser version of Bulerias for practising. I will
have to re-read what you've posted on my train ride home from work, as
the brain cell's have not fully digested it quite yet.

Tom, the stuff on your website is really nice material. That plus plus the stuff
from Duende will keep me busy for a while.

Regards,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2007 18:02:15