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Music Question
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n85ae
Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
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Music Question
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Here's a quandary I play guitar, and it is largely a mix of different styles, jazz, classical, etc. I have an assortment of instrumental guitar pieces which I have made up, and play what category they are ... ? Who know's, they're my music. Well, anyway, since I've been working on learning Flamenco, and have developed pretty decent technique, naturally I play stuff using it. Well, Hmm.. Ok, so if I play something that is capo'd at the second fret, and it is largely A->Bb, por medio, etc. It sounds Flamenco, but ... Here's the quandary, I KNOW it's not any particular Palos, etc. And to a non flamenco person hears it, they'd say - Hey that's really cool. But to somebody on this website their gonna say, "what the f--- is that crap"? Of course, my ear is tuned into Flamenco enough, that I know it is not really flamenco. SO I basically feel like I can't play these things I've made up because they don't sound right... Does that makes sense? Because it sounds like a Bulerias, but it's out of Compas, now I can't play it because I don't feel right about it. Does anybody else have similar feelings? Sigh, then my kids will become teenage and ... Regards, Jeff
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Date Mar. 16 2007 14:56:48
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n85ae
Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
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RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)
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I actually do make a serious effort to learn real stuff, it is very difficult. I have this Old Soleares which I plug away at, and make a couple bars more progress from time to time, eventually I will master it. I have several Bulerias I work at as well because they sound so cool. As well, I work on the Nunez stuff, etc. Basic technique is actually the easiest thing. Tremolo and picado, just require repetition to build speed. Rasqueado's work well, just a matter of hand strength, learning how to do them, and digging in enough to get the right sound. I got the Flamenco metronome. It is frustratingly hard to keep track of where I'm at with it. But I can keep on the beat with a conventional metronome. The Flamenco one, is frustrating because so often, it drops on beat 1 (12, etc) and I'm like, how the heck did I get here, I'm supposed to be on beat 3? :) Grr... Little things like accidentally adding a beat, or subrtracting a beat here and there. Actually this one is so frustrating it makes me want to quit a lot, and I do in fact quit a lot. Just I keep trying over again. Actually I've only been seriously attempting Flamenco for about 1 year now, so I realize that's a very short time. In fact just that one year has made dramatics imrpovements to my playing anyway. Posting something, I will certainly do that as soon as I get some time. Actually I'll post something which is uniquely my own flamenco-ish stuff, and not any particular flamenco form and see what people think. Jeff
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Date Mar. 16 2007 17:33:47
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)
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Jeff, you say that now "you dont feel right about it....." ..in my eyes: thats very good! Dont look at it in a negative way........it shows that you you are seriously interested to learn and play real flamenco......that means it is time to relax and to start with be basics again (compas, etc.....). And this is no problem ,,,it takes a little bit time..but as you already have experience in guitar playing (jazz, classic , etc) you just need to learn the compas rules and practice a little bit and thats it..... i did the same some time ago.....an example : i played a bulerias ,put that video to youtube......sounds not bad....everyone is saying : Olee....good. etc....but i felt that i had many mistakes regarding compas. etc..and that if i continue this way , i wont be happy at the end.... I had the same feeling like you. So i started again and i am now practicing slower , but try to play in a correct way...and i enjoy it very much because is see and hear that it makes sence and that it sounds authentic! You know what i mean ? So if you are asking if makes sence that you dont feel right about it ? ....Yes! My suggestion is: stop playing something undefinable and go the hard way! You will enjoy it later much more! I promise! quote:
There is no law against playing music that is influenced by flamenco, have fun with it and don't feel guilty. I recorded a CD full of the stuff and my conscience is clear Jon , ok but you are playing flamenco , ok not traditional style but nuevo flamenco, rumba. etc.....and i am sure that you can also play bulerias , solea, etc........in compas And i think this is something different than what jeff is trying to say. Arash
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Date Mar. 16 2007 17:45:51
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n85ae
Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
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RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)
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Yep, that's the problem. If I play something that sounds like a Bulerias and I'm playing back and forth on A, Bb, and I do some picado runs, interesting stuff in between, etc. Ok, I have the general idea that I'm in compas. However, now lets say I played A, and shifted from that to an Am, followed by G, F, E, etc. and worked into por arriba, then after a bit used a C and used that as a route back into por medio. This all sounds interesting because I shifted from A Phrygian, to E, and then back. Is it Flamenco? I don't understand the rules for chord changes, etc. This is causing me a lot of trouble. I know scales, and chords, etc. also rhythm is one thing, that's straightforward 12,1,2,3,etc. Just chord changes, and the rules for how to use them I have perused a bunch of sites, and have about a 6 inch deep stack of tabs at home to work on, etc. But it would be sure nice if somebody could provide basically just a chord chart of a bulerias for example. Which says ok play these chords for x-number of bars, put a 6 bar falseta here, then play these chords for x-number more bars, then add another falseta, and finally then to end the whole thing play these chord changes, etc. Just a basic roadmap, not tablature, not notation just a simple structural diagram. Any help like this would be much appreciated. Particularly for a Bulerias since it is the one I most like the sound of.
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Date Mar. 16 2007 18:17:16
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Guest
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RE: Music Question (in reply to guitarbuddha)
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quote:
Ricardo I went on a fishing trip few weeks ago and caught loads of fish. I have never been fishing before but the fish I caught looked real pretty. When I got home I put them in the freezer. I had a friend come round who knows a lot about fish and asked him what kind of fish they were. When we got to the freezer the ice had turned to water some days before ( I keep my freezer in the cellar ). He said that they were carp, inedible and very very off. For a moment I was worried but then I realised that he was mean and jealous of my pretty fish and trying to take adantage of the fact that I have no sense of smell. So I didn't let him trick me onto canceling my big fish eating party for this weekend where all my friends are invited and we're all going to enjoy eating my pretty fish. The thing is Ricardo I've never cooked before and my question for you is SHOULD I FRY THEM ? Did u make this story up? sure if the carp were off theyre inedible, but i have heard you can eat carp if prepared properly(but i never tried carp). generally they dont have a great reputation as a good eating fish. I think too because they are bottom feeders they can eat a lot crap and that may effect the taste and i think they have a lot of bones as well. Over here thay are an introduced species and have infested our main river system and its illegal to throw them back in.
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Date Mar. 17 2007 1:28:01
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n85ae
Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
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RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)
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Tom - It is titled "Soleares Antigua" from an old Mariano Cordoba book. If I get some time, I will scan and post it. The chord change stuff though that I was talking about, was not from it. It was just some general improvisational stuff I was mentioning as an example of what I don't know if it is Flamenco or not. Ricardo - I keep hearing about "Woody woodpecker", now if I was a sarcastic guy and knew you better I might make a crack about your obsession with Woody or the Woodpecker? Or is that Woody, and his woodpecker? In any case, I'm not so I'll refrain ... :) See, just like you don't know my guitar playing, I don't know your sense of humor :) My guitar playing is decent, and the "woody woodpecker" thing is not the problem. It is just hard to keep track of where I'm at with Flamenco rythms, which is frustrating, but I'm sure that fix itself with enough practice. I can definetly play stuff that sound Flamenco, BUT again, rules for chord changes, etc. You would think were simple but it's the rare discussion that seems to mention them. I did see stuff on Tom's website, so come Monday I'll have a good look at it. Thanks! Ok, Carp - Eat fish at a CHinese restaraunt, you're gonna eat a lot of Carp. Carp are their staple fish. I know, my wife is Chinese. Plus eating rice a lot builds strong nails (Ricardo). Take a look at any Asian's fingernails. They never have nail problems to speak of. Carp just got a bad reputation, because some elitist sport fisherman call them a garbage fish. Ok, I gotta get back to work on the house, the toilet drain broke, and I'm the family plumber. What a crappy job (pun intended). Thanks for the stuff Duende! I rarely internet on the weekend, so that's why the delayed reply. Regards, Jeff
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Date Mar. 18 2007 15:09:27
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Ricardo
Posts: 14884
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Music Question (in reply to n85ae)
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quote:
My guitar playing is decent, and the "woody woodpecker" thing is not the problem. It is just hard to keep track of where I'm at with Flamenco rythms, which is frustrating, but I'm sure that fix itself with enough practice. I can definetly play stuff that sound Flamenco, BUT again, rules for chord changes, etc. My point was that for flamenco guitar, strumming compas is tough to get a handle on at first because it is not very repetative. There are lots of different patterns happening in a single piece. I think if rhythm is your problem, as you stated, it would be good to do something very repetative to drive home and internalize the rhythmic phrase. The woody woodpecker thing is a famous arpegio of paco that has the up and down melody similar to woody's laugh. It gets used quite a lot in compas strumming of bulerias, so I thought that was a funny way to describe it. Ricardo
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Date Mar. 18 2007 19:32:56
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Guest
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RE: Music Question (in reply to Mark2)
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quote:
Hey man, throw the carp back you could do that...or strap it round the third fret and use it as a capo.
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Date Mar. 19 2007 0:17:08
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