RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist

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[Poll]

NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist

after playing for baile 10 years and cante ten years

8% (3)

Once they have mastered compas

13% (5)

once they have mastered all flamenco techniques and compas

16% (6)

once they play 'la cucaracha' and yell ole at the end

13% (5)

when they play with true aire

22% (8)

when they can play 'la feria' just like juan martin

5% (2)

once theyve ripped off a car with some gypsies

5% (2)

once they wear the frilly shirts and sing 'po dom pom pom'

2% (1)

once they become a 'guiri in denial'

0% (0)

after completing a 16 hour shift in the captain beefcakes factory

11% (4)

Total Votes : 36

(last vote on : Dec. 23 2015 16:38:33)

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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

well i found a lot of nice passages ideas in the album link i pasted, i havent heard him since his first one.

id like to think i am a fair audience and dont discredit it before i listen to it.

u couldnt have heard much cause u replied like 1 minute after i pasted the link :-)

U dont have to love it, but admit theres something nice about it, its alot eazyer to put out a rumba cd.

CMon noone will question your flamenconess

its like man who are so homophobic

chances are because they are scared what they might find out if they get too close

Are u a closet Otmar lover ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:23:17

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

U dont have to love it, but admit theres something nice about it, its alot eazyer to put out a rumba cd.

As i said, if i like it or not is not the issue, it shouldnt prositute the name "flamenco" when it isnt.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:31:16

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

As i said, if i like it or not is not the issue, it shouldnt prositute the name "flamenco" when it isnt.

ok yes, we covered that, Naugthy OTMAR !!!!

but hat do you think of the music ? its not complete trash, i have heard much much worst

on another day we might trash him and put him down , but i just listened to his music today and i dont feel like doing it just for the sake of it.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:34:53

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

but hat do you think of the music ? its not complete trash, i have heard much much worst

As music goes i could probably sleep very well to it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:37:16

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

As music goes i could probably sleep very well to it

well the world needs that too.

lol, we covered so many subjects on the same thread thats amazing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:40:38

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

We are only on page 10, we got to go until 12

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:46:55

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

U might wanna see this, he has a recomandations page, where he recoments Movies, music etc. the music he recomends is quite interesting.

http://www.lunanegra.com/www/ol/recommend/ol_recommend_set.htm

I dont know how hes hurting flamenco even tho it just looks like he copyed and pasted some of the names

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:50:20

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

I dont know how hes hurting flamenco

You would, if you saw some of the ones imitating him, but i dont want to hang out people here, so you have to do that research yourself.

Google "nouveau flamenco"...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:53:42

MarkMc

Posts: 121
Joined: Oct. 1 2005
From: Wilsonville, Oregon

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

Sorry this is knd of off the subject of Otmar but just wanted to share this:

Quote from Ricardo:

quote:

Camaron loved the guitar and guitarists, solo or accompanying.

Yeah he did. Check this out...

Looks like Moriato w/ him too?

_____________________________

-MarkMc

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:56:15

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Camaron loved the guitar and guitarists, solo or accompanying.

Of course, who said he didnt? And the first time i saw that video, i got tears in my eyes, because he was so good.

Yeah, its Pedro Bacán, Moraito and Raimundo Amador playing in the program.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:57:57

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

well hes just making money but atlist hes also pointing people towards proper flamenco and aknolodging it is alot more than alot of people who exploit it do.

I think he dosent know what hes talking about, eg, his description of Gerardos album.

but got to give him credit for trying

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 13:58:43

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

but got to give him credit for trying

Well financially theres no reason to feel sorry for him even if he sounds like a struggling beginning flamenco student.

And he might have introduced some people to Flamencoish sounds, but he has confused a whole lot more people about what flamenco is about.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:00:57

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

U are a very very hard man

does he play with a pick or his fingers ?

if he listens to all this flamenco he must be able to play something flamenco (anyone know of any palos attempts hes made ? id be curious)

but mibe he realizes that in flamenco hel always be nobody weres in what he does whatever that genre is, atlist he can make money and Be Otmar Liebert.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:09:57

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

he can make money

Yeah and thats what its about. He is doing a lot better financially than most real flamenco guitarists.

And they have a lot harder time surviving on their music than he has, so i dont think im that hard.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:12:23

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

SO are many drugdealers, pimps, dictators, poloticians, dj's, soo ?

thats life, not always fair, hes got just as much right as anyone else to want a good life only problem is he managed to get it.

Some people sell stuff that kills to survive (alcohol, cigarets, drugs, guns) he sels music no matter what he calls it, we still need to keep it in prespective.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:14:42

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

hes got just as much right as anyone else to want a good life.

Well, if you are ready to defend pimps or dictators i cant really join you there

And yeah, he´s pimping flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:16:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

If u read carefully , you will see i am not.

I know u say u dont hate him but i would be scared to leave u in the same room with him while there happens to be a romanian tractor around.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:19:24

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

Ok, but i also understand that its a hard life where you do what you do to survive but im not willing to support people who takes the job from someone else using false credentials.

Yeah, if i had a tractor you´d have to stop me

And someone else will probably soon come and say that im trying to pose as a spaniard or being a "purist" whatever that is, saying that.

No, im just a guiri that loves it too much to see someone making a whore out of something i love.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:21:31

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

but im not willing to support people who takes the job from someone else using false credentials

cmon man lol, whose work is he taking ? its not like a taxy line and each person gets the next taxy and he jumped in front of the queue.

if people didnt like what he does they wouldnt get the second album, people that buy his albums are not flamenco lovers they are Otmar lovers.

if it wasent him, it would be someone else just as light or pop music

noone is taking anything that is rigtfully flamencos, people who normaly like flamenco flamenco dont like Otmar, and people who like Otmar dont really like flamenco most of the time.

while we at it , i think Otmar is responsible for the on going war between the Israely and Palestininas also

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:25:26

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

The marketing money behind Ottmar could easily have been put behind the real thing instead.

Its greedy record companies willing to fool people, to make a buck, more than Ottmar himself, who id like to run over several times with a tractor.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:30:23

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

Is not so much that i am defending Otmar ( i cant belive i am doing it) is just that i think u putting too much energy into hating him when it shouldnt affect u, has nothing to do with flamenco or taking money away from flamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:36:05

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Is not so much that i am defending Otmar ( i cant belive i am doing it) is just that i think u putting too much energy into hating him when it shouldnt affect u, has nothing to do with flamenco or taking money away from flamenco.

I cant believe that you are defending him either

And you are putting just as much energy in defending him as i am attacking him

Just having this conversation here might enlighten some people who thought he was "puro" so no harm in having it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:38:45

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

willing to bet a million bucs not one person here thinks hes puro

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:40:33

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

Well, thats comforting and one of the reasons i like this forum

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:41:28

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

but thats just my point

same with everyone else who really likes flamenco flamenco, they know weather its here or somewhere else.

if they think this is flamenco then they dont really like flamenco because they dont know it, they like him.

noone goes " Uhh i wanna like flamenco, must find a flamenco cd"

is it chek mate yet ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:44:51

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

if they think this is flamenco then they dont really like flamenco because they dont know it, they like him.

Lets say someone is curious about flamenco, go to the recordstore and find a record called "new flamenco" in what seems to be spanish for an untrained eye. Then they would get the impression that flamenco was some sort of smooth elevator music, and then wouldnt search further if they didnt like it.

(check mate will be one page 12)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 14:52:20

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

well the same can be said if they pick up a Juan Martin album where he claims hes one of the best flamenco has to offer or something like that.

someone takes it and thinks , flamenco is not that great.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 15:12:43

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

Yes, but thats different because he is playing flamenco, ottmar is not.

And every car salesman says that his cars are the best, but when it comes to ottmar and the ones doing the noveau thing, they are selling a bike for the price of a car.

I think there are laws against false marketing and if there arent, in this case they should make them.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 15:43:34

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

Yes i understand that, but if u really wanna point a finger at someone point it at Juan cause hes taking more money away selling himself under false pretense. (a flamenco master)

and this money is would have otherwise gonne to better flamencos

Otmars money would have gonne to Jose feliciano, Nova menco, Jessie Cook, Armik etc

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 15:59:30

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

I did a check-up on Ottmar..
Haah! I really get what you're talking about now. The only way to label his work as flamenco would be: A new, lighter form of flamenco.. for elevators. Nah, that would be wrong. It's just not flamenco, just features some of the same instruments. When he actually attempts a flamenco palo.. waah! make it stop. (basing my opinion on youtube videos)

but sure, there is a lot of worse music.. however, what's his secret? how come everyone knows this guy?.. oh well. Juan Martin.. definetly not one of the top three by any stretch, but you guys are really hard on the guy sometimes. To me he doesn't come across as much of a diva, looking kind of harmless and talking softly with funny accent, doing rasgeados from the palm of his hand etc.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2006 16:00:28