RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Full Version)

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[Poll]

NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist
after playing for baile 10 years and cante ten years
  8% (3)
Once they have mastered compas
  13% (5)
once they have mastered all flamenco techniques and compas
  16% (6)
once they play 'la cucaracha' and yell ole at the end
  13% (5)
when they play with true aire
  22% (8)
when they can play 'la feria' just like juan martin
  5% (2)
once theyve ripped off a car with some gypsies
  5% (2)
once they wear the frilly shirts and sing 'po dom pom pom'
  2% (1)
once they become a 'guiri in denial'
  0% (0)
after completing a 16 hour shift in the captain beefcakes factory
  11% (4)


Total Votes : 36
(last vote on : Dec. 23 2015 16:38:33) 


Message

Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:23:17)

well i found a lot of nice passages ideas in the album link i pasted, i havent heard him since his first one.

id like to think i am a fair audience and dont discredit it before i listen to it.

u couldnt have heard much cause u replied like 1 minute after i pasted the link :-)


U dont have to love it, but admit theres something nice about it, its alot eazyer to put out a rumba cd.

CMon noone will question your flamenconess [:D]

its like man who are so homophobic [:D] chances are because they are scared what they might find out if they get too close [:D]


Are u a closet Otmar lover ?[:D][:D]



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:31:16)

quote:



U dont have to love it, but admit theres something nice about it, its alot eazyer to put out a rumba cd.


As i said, if i like it or not is not the issue, it shouldnt prositute the name "flamenco" when it isnt.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:34:53)

quote:

As i said, if i like it or not is not the issue, it shouldnt prositute the name "flamenco" when it isnt.



ok yes, we covered that, Naugthy OTMAR !!!!

but hat do you think of the music ? its not complete trash, i have heard much much worst

on another day we might trash him and put him down , but i just listened to his music today and i dont feel like doing it just for the sake of it.



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:37:16)

quote:


but hat do you think of the music ? its not complete trash, i have heard much much worst


As music goes i could probably sleep very well to it. [:D]



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:40:38)

quote:

As music goes i could probably sleep very well to it


well the world needs that too.[:D]








lol, we covered so many subjects on the same thread thats amazing.



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:46:55)

We are only on page 10, we got to go until 12 [:D]



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:50:20)

U might wanna see this, he has a recomandations page, where he recoments Movies, music etc. the music he recomends is quite interesting.

http://www.lunanegra.com/www/ol/recommend/ol_recommend_set.htm

I dont know how hes hurting flamenco even tho it just looks like he copyed and pasted some of the names [:D][:D]



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:53:42)

quote:

I dont know how hes hurting flamenco


You would, if you saw some of the ones imitating him, but i dont want to hang out people here, so you have to do that research yourself. [;)]

Google "nouveau flamenco"...



MarkMc -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:56:15)

Sorry this is knd of off the subject of Otmar but just wanted to share this:

Quote from Ricardo:

quote:

Camaron loved the guitar and guitarists, solo or accompanying.


Yeah he did. Check this out...



Looks like Moriato w/ him too?



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:57:57)

quote:


Camaron loved the guitar and guitarists, solo or accompanying.



Of course, who said he didnt? And the first time i saw that video, i got tears in my eyes, because he was so good. [:)] Yeah, its Pedro Bacán, Moraito and Raimundo Amador playing in the program.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 13:58:43)

well hes just making money but atlist hes also pointing people towards proper flamenco and aknolodging it is alot more than alot of people who exploit it do.

I think he dosent know what hes talking about, eg, his description of Gerardos album.

but got to give him credit for trying



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:00:57)

quote:

but got to give him credit for trying


Well financially theres no reason to feel sorry for him even if he sounds like a struggling beginning flamenco student. [:D]

And he might have introduced some people to Flamencoish sounds, but he has confused a whole lot more people about what flamenco is about.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:09:57)

U are a very very hard man[:)]

does he play with a pick or his fingers ?

if he listens to all this flamenco he must be able to play something flamenco (anyone know of any palos attempts hes made ? id be curious)

but mibe he realizes that in flamenco hel always be nobody weres in what he does whatever that genre is, atlist he can make money and Be Otmar Liebert.



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:12:23)

quote:

he can make money


Yeah and thats what its about. He is doing a lot better financially than most real flamenco guitarists.

And they have a lot harder time surviving on their music than he has, so i dont think im that hard.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:14:42)

SO are many drugdealers, pimps, dictators, poloticians, dj's, soo ?

thats life, not always fair, hes got just as much right as anyone else to want a good life only problem is he managed to get it.

Some people sell stuff that kills to survive (alcohol, cigarets, drugs, guns) he sels music no matter what he calls it, we still need to keep it in prespective.



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:16:36)

quote:

hes got just as much right as anyone else to want a good life.


Well, if you are ready to defend pimps or dictators i cant really join you there [:D]

And yeah, he´s pimping flamenco.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:19:24)

If u read carefully , you will see i am not.

I know u say u dont hate him but i would be scared to leave u in the same room with him while there happens to be a romanian tractor around.[:D]



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:21:31)

Ok, but i also understand that its a hard life where you do what you do to survive but im not willing to support people who takes the job from someone else using false credentials.

Yeah, if i had a tractor you´d have to stop me [:D]

And someone else will probably soon come and say that im trying to pose as a spaniard or being a "purist" whatever that is, saying that.

No, im just a guiri that loves it too much to see someone making a whore out of something i love.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:25:26)

quote:

but im not willing to support people who takes the job from someone else using false credentials


cmon man lol, whose work is he taking ? its not like a taxy line and each person gets the next taxy and he jumped in front of the queue.

if people didnt like what he does they wouldnt get the second album, people that buy his albums are not flamenco lovers they are Otmar lovers.

if it wasent him, it would be someone else just as light or pop music

noone is taking anything that is rigtfully flamencos, people who normaly like flamenco flamenco dont like Otmar, and people who like Otmar dont really like flamenco most of the time.

while we at it , i think Otmar is responsible for the on going war between the Israely and Palestininas also[:)]



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:30:23)

The marketing money behind Ottmar could easily have been put behind the real thing instead.

Its greedy record companies willing to fool people, to make a buck, more than Ottmar himself, who id like to run over several times with a tractor. [:@]



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:36:05)

Is not so much that i am defending Otmar ( i cant belive i am doing it) is just that i think u putting too much energy into hating him when it shouldnt affect u, has nothing to do with flamenco or taking money away from flamenco.



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:38:45)

quote:

Is not so much that i am defending Otmar ( i cant belive i am doing it) is just that i think u putting too much energy into hating him when it shouldnt affect u, has nothing to do with flamenco or taking money away from flamenco.


I cant believe that you are defending him either [:o][:D]
And you are putting just as much energy in defending him as i am attacking him [;)]

Just having this conversation here might enlighten some people who thought he was "puro" so no harm in having it.

[:D]



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:40:33)

willing to bet a million bucs not one person here thinks hes puro [:)]



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:41:28)

Well, thats comforting and one of the reasons i like this forum [:D]



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:44:51)

but thats just my point [:D] same with everyone else who really likes flamenco flamenco, they know weather its here or somewhere else.

if they think this is flamenco then they dont really like flamenco because they dont know it, they like him.

noone goes " Uhh i wanna like flamenco, must find a flamenco cd"


is it chek mate yet ?[:D]



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 14:52:20)

quote:

if they think this is flamenco then they dont really like flamenco because they dont know it, they like him.


Lets say someone is curious about flamenco, go to the recordstore and find a record called "new flamenco" in what seems to be spanish for an untrained eye. Then they would get the impression that flamenco was some sort of smooth elevator music, and then wouldnt search further if they didnt like it.

(check mate will be one page 12) [:D]



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 15:12:43)

well the same can be said if they pick up a Juan Martin album where he claims hes one of the best flamenco has to offer or something like that.

someone takes it and thinks , flamenco is not that great.



sonikete -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 15:43:34)

Yes, but thats different because he is playing flamenco, ottmar is not.

And every car salesman says that his cars are the best, but when it comes to ottmar and the ones doing the noveau thing, they are selling a bike for the price of a car.

I think there are laws against false marketing and if there arent, in this case they should make them.



Florian -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 15:59:30)

Yes i understand that, but if u really wanna point a finger at someone point it at Juan cause hes taking more money away selling himself under false pretense. (a flamenco master)

and this money is would have otherwise gonne to better flamencos

Otmars money would have gonne to Jose feliciano, Nova menco, Jessie Cook, Armik etc



mrMagenta -> RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist (Dec. 21 2006 16:00:28)

I did a check-up on Ottmar..
Haah! I really get what you're talking about now. The only way to label his work as flamenco would be: A new, lighter form of flamenco.. for elevators. Nah, that would be wrong. It's just not flamenco, just features some of the same instruments. When he actually attempts a flamenco palo.. waah! make it stop. (basing my opinion on youtube videos)

but sure, there is a lot of worse music.. however, what's his secret? how come everyone knows this guy?.. oh well. Juan Martin.. definetly not one of the top three by any stretch, but you guys are really hard on the guy sometimes. To me he doesn't come across as much of a diva, looking kind of harmless and talking softly with funny accent, doing rasgeados from the palm of his hand etc.



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