RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.."

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sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

thats more flamenco then the guy in togo who dedicates 20 years practicing it and loving it even tho he has noone else to do it with ?

thats freaking ridiculos

Well if you agree that flamenco is cante i dont see how ridiculous that is.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 15:49:51

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

my problem is also that i dont understand spanish language.
So how can i play for a singer when i dont understand what he/she is singing?
Is there a flamenco rule like: first learn spanish, otherwise you will never be a flamenco guitarist?

However i love to learn spanish and am trying to learn it.

Just wanted to say that such limitations are not "flamenco" as well!

The first thing is to listen to it so much that you start recognizing melodies in the song, then you´ll learn a few spanish words by finding the letras to those and take it from there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 15:52:34

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete) 1 votes

quote:

Well if you agree that flamenco is cante i dont see how ridiculous that is

At its core Flamenco is about rithym and AIRE. Where is cante, baile and toque without the two.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 15:54:35

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 15:54:42

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

At its core Flamenco is about rithym and AIRE. Where is cante, baile and toque without the two.

And where is flamenco without cante?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 15:57:05

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

Cante is the heart of flamenco a huge part, but FLAMENCO is alot bigger than just one element alone.

and most of all flamenco is a emotion a story transmited to you , sometimes trough cante , sometimes trough toque and sometimes trough dance, and sometimes even trough silence.

i think all your belifes come from outside and u have learned too much from reading or asking other people, witch is a great way to do , but try doing it with your heart sometimes too otherwise u just end up rgargitating other peoples views and u miss alot of it, while u looking the otherway to see what else they say.

flamenco will never touch you if u dont expose a litlle part of YOURSELF for it to touch, and always playing it by always saying what flamenco masres say.

i mean its great they are the masters, but u are not trying to win credits for how many times u were right by quoting sabicas, try and explore and get your answers from the inside.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 15:59:26

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

i think all your belifes come from outside and u have learned too much from reading or asking other people

I have learned by first having a teacher from sevilla then playing with singers and dancers from granada and sevilla.

And i have had a lot of teachers from antonio jero to manolo sanlucar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:01:44

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:01:50

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

And where is flamenco without cante?

What I was saying is and maybe I'm wrong that it is rithym and aire that defines flamenco whether it is cante-baile or toque.

To answer your question, flamenco without cante is just that----meaning flamenco without singing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:04:18

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

And i have had a lot of teachers from antonio jero to manolo sanlucar

thats great, so ? if i had money i could go and have lessons with them too

they cant teach you how to feel

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:05:45

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

What I was saying is and maybe I'm wrong that it is rithym and aire that defines flamenco whether it is cante-baile or toque.

That might be the difference between good and bad flamenco but flamenco is gravitating around cante even if its solo guitar or saxophone.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:06:55

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:08:27

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

thats great, so ? if i had money i could go and have lessons with them too

they cant teach you how to feel

Feelings are very subjective and flamenco is based around forms that are there regardless if one feels anything for them or not.

And i was just responding to your assumption that ive learned everything from books.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:08:54

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

I agree do it with your heart. That is what really matters. But the post was not whether you should do it with your heart or not

i wasent talking about the post , was just discussing things with sonikete

and i do like him, is just sometimes i feel like everything is soo "from someone elses ideas" that i dont even think hes always even sure why hes saying it, but he knows noone can correct him because it comes from the masters.

and he may even be 100 % right, i am just trying to make a distinction beween the person i have at the foro and the person that just repeats everything the masters say.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:09:50

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

I have learned by first having a teacher from sevilla then playing with singers and dancers from granada and sevilla.

And i have had a lot of teachers from antonio jero to manolo sanlucar.

Thats nice, but it doesnt mean that you can play flamenco.

I think theres a problem. The term flamenco isnt clear definated yet.

And in the flamenco of today, all parts (guitar, singing, dance, cajon or whatever) are complete redundant.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:11:34

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:12:00

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

and he may even be 100 % right, i am just trying to make a distinction beween the person i have at the foro and the person that just repeats everything the masters say.

I have been playing for over 20 years with dancers and singers so i have had quite enough time to make my own mind up about things.

quote:

quote:

The term flamenco isnt clear definated yet.

Yes it is.

Flamenco = Cante

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:12:21

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Feelings are very subjective

feelings are everything ! anybody who lives 2 hours drive from spain can go there every weekend and have lessons with anyone as long as they have money.

dosent guarantee anything

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:12:59

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:13:45

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

feelings are everything ! anybody who lives 2 hours drive from spain can go there every weekend and have lessons with anyone as long as they have money.

dosent guarantee anything

Guarantee what?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:14:33

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:15:03

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Florian)

can i ask how old u are sonikete ?

mibe us always disagreeing is more our age difference.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:15:05

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

Im 39 and i have been playing flamenco since i was 18.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:15:44

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Guarantee what?

dosent guarante that u can play with feeling, aire, whatever u wish to call it.

sorry will be more specific next time

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:16:46

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Florian) 1 votes

quote:

Feelings are very subjective and flamenco is based around forms that are there regardless if one feels anything for them or not.

And are not those FORMS based around rithym? And to play in comas must you not FEEL those rithyms.

i feel like everything is soo "from someone elses ideas

I feel that way about you as well soniqete, how is it that both florian and i are getting the same vibe from your thoughts?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:18:03

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

dosent guarante that u can play with feeling, aire, whatever u wish to call it.

No but that has more to do with quality than knowledge.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:18:06

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Im 39 and i have been playing flamenco since i was 18.

ok

on paper i am impressed

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:18:24

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

I feel that way about you as well soniqete, how is it that both florian and i are getting the same vibe from your thoughts?

How would i be able to know that? It looks like projection to me, to use a psychology term.

I have no idea what preconceived ideas you have about me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:20:56

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have t... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonikete

Feelings are very subjective and flamenco is based around forms that are there regardless if one feels anything for them or not.

I would think that music is a way of expressing your feelings, and flamenco is ONE way of music, no?
Why not trying to play as good as you can, to makes your audience enjoy your playing the best you can, and give a **** on lables and categories, how CRITICS would judge you?

You dont play for the critics. You play for your audience.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 16:20:56