RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Full Version)

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sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 15:49:51)

quote:

thats more flamenco then the guy in togo who dedicates 20 years practicing it and loving it even tho he has noone else to do it with ?

thats freaking ridiculos


Well if you agree that flamenco is cante i dont see how ridiculous that is.



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 15:52:34)

quote:


my problem is also that i dont understand spanish language.
So how can i play for a singer when i dont understand what he/she is singing?
Is there a flamenco rule like: first learn spanish, otherwise you will never be a flamenco guitarist?

However i love to learn spanish and am trying to learn it.

Just wanted to say that such limitations are not "flamenco" as well!


The first thing is to listen to it so much that you start recognizing melodies in the song, then you´ll learn a few spanish words by finding the letras to those and take it from there.



Rain -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 15:54:35)

quote:

Well if you agree that flamenco is cante i dont see how ridiculous that is


At its core Flamenco is about rithym and AIRE. Where is cante, baile and toque without the two.



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sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 15:57:05)

quote:


At its core Flamenco is about rithym and AIRE. Where is cante, baile and toque without the two.


And where is flamenco without cante?



Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 15:59:26)

Cante is the heart of flamenco a huge part, but FLAMENCO is alot bigger than just one element alone.

and most of all flamenco is a emotion a story transmited to you , sometimes trough cante , sometimes trough toque and sometimes trough dance, and sometimes even trough silence.


i think all your belifes come from outside and u have learned too much from reading or asking other people, witch is a great way to do , but try doing it with your heart sometimes too otherwise u just end up rgargitating other peoples views and u miss alot of it, while u looking the otherway to see what else they say.

flamenco will never touch you if u dont expose a litlle part of YOURSELF for it to touch, and always playing it by always saying what flamenco masres say.

i mean its great they are the masters, but u are not trying to win credits for how many times u were right by quoting sabicas, try and explore and get your answers from the inside.



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:01:44)

quote:

i think all your belifes come from outside and u have learned too much from reading or asking other people


I have learned by first having a teacher from sevilla then playing with singers and dancers from granada and sevilla.

And i have had a lot of teachers from antonio jero to manolo sanlucar.



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Rain -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:04:18)

quote:

And where is flamenco without cante?


What I was saying is and maybe I'm wrong that it is rithym and aire that defines flamenco whether it is cante-baile or toque.

To answer your question, flamenco without cante is just that----meaning flamenco without singing.



Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:05:45)

quote:

And i have had a lot of teachers from antonio jero to manolo sanlucar


thats great, so ? if i had money i could go and have lessons with them too

they cant teach you how to feel



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:06:55)

quote:

What I was saying is and maybe I'm wrong that it is rithym and aire that defines flamenco whether it is cante-baile or toque.


That might be the difference between good and bad flamenco but flamenco is gravitating around cante even if its solo guitar or saxophone.



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sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:08:54)

quote:


thats great, so ? if i had money i could go and have lessons with them too

they cant teach you how to feel


Feelings are very subjective and flamenco is based around forms that are there regardless if one feels anything for them or not.

And i was just responding to your assumption that ive learned everything from books.



Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:09:50)

quote:

I agree do it with your heart. That is what really matters. But the post was not whether you should do it with your heart or not


i wasent talking about the post , was just discussing things with sonikete

and i do like him, is just sometimes i feel like everything is soo "from someone elses ideas" that i dont even think hes always even sure why hes saying it, but he knows noone can correct him because it comes from the masters.

and he may even be 100 % right, i am just trying to make a distinction beween the person i have at the foro and the person that just repeats everything the masters say.



Doitsujin -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:11:34)

quote:

I have learned by first having a teacher from sevilla then playing with singers and dancers from granada and sevilla.

And i have had a lot of teachers from antonio jero to manolo sanlucar.


Thats nice, but it doesnt mean that you can play flamenco.

I think theres a problem. The term flamenco isnt clear definated yet.

And in the flamenco of today, all parts (guitar, singing, dance, cajon or whatever) are complete redundant.



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sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:12:21)

quote:


and he may even be 100 % right, i am just trying to make a distinction beween the person i have at the foro and the person that just repeats everything the masters say.


I have been playing for over 20 years with dancers and singers so i have had quite enough time to make my own mind up about things.


quote:

quote:

The term flamenco isnt clear definated yet.


Yes it is.

Flamenco = Cante



Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:12:59)

quote:

Feelings are very subjective


feelings are everything ! anybody who lives 2 hours drive from spain can go there every weekend and have lessons with anyone as long as they have money.

dosent guarantee anything



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sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:14:33)

quote:


feelings are everything ! anybody who lives 2 hours drive from spain can go there every weekend and have lessons with anyone as long as they have money.

dosent guarantee anything


Guarantee what?



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 17 2006 16:15:03)

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Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:15:05)

can i ask how old u are sonikete ?


mibe us always disagreeing is more our age difference.[:)]



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:15:44)

Im 39 and i have been playing flamenco since i was 18.



Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:16:46)

quote:

Guarantee what?


dosent guarante that u can play with feeling, aire, whatever u wish to call it.

sorry will be more specific next time



Rain -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:18:03)

quote:

Feelings are very subjective and flamenco is based around forms that are there regardless if one feels anything for them or not.


And are not those FORMS based around rithym? And to play in comas must you not FEEL those rithyms.

i feel like everything is soo "from someone elses ideas

I feel that way about you as well soniqete, how is it that both florian and i are getting the same vibe from your thoughts?



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:18:06)

quote:


dosent guarante that u can play with feeling, aire, whatever u wish to call it.


No but that has more to do with quality than knowledge.



Florian -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:18:24)

quote:

Im 39 and i have been playing flamenco since i was 18.


ok

on paper i am impressed [:D]



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:20:56)

quote:

I feel that way about you as well soniqete, how is it that both florian and i are getting the same vibe from your thoughts?


[:D] How would i be able to know that? It looks like projection to me, to use a psychology term.

I have no idea what preconceived ideas you have about me.



XXX -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:20:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonikete

Feelings are very subjective and flamenco is based around forms that are there regardless if one feels anything for them or not.



I would think that music is a way of expressing your feelings, and flamenco is ONE way of music, no?
Why not trying to play as good as you can, to makes your audience enjoy your playing the best you can, and give a **** on lables and categories, how CRITICS would judge you?

You dont play for the critics. You play for your audience.



sonikete -> RE: Sabicas " Guitarists have to play their own music.." (Dec. 17 2006 16:22:16)

quote:


You dont play for the critics. You play for your audience.


Well i play because i have to, not to critics or to the audience.



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