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Playing music for a living or or occasionally for money
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
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Anthony, I make some money playing out. The way I see it, there are touring musicians and stay-in-one-place musicians. In the first category are almost all of the famous and well-to-do musicians, in the latter are probably the vast majority of those who have comfortable incomes. Music is difficult because it is not really rewarded by society in the same way that ordinary jobs such as bus drivers, lawyers, or engineers are. You are paid for entertaining people and are not paid for the countless hours spent by yourself working on your craft. Contrast the desk jockey who goes home and stares at the TV to forget about his job! I go home so that I can work on mine. I don't know... in some ways it's a gloomy profession, playing often in the background, usually at night, entering in the back, wearing black. A lot of musicians get off late and go to bars or late-night Denny's for the little socializing they do. Some are bitter because by the time they are middle aged they're a hell of a lot better players than the guys on the radio! But no one will ever know it. The guys at the resorts scare me... kind of grizzled and always smiling but it's a fake kind of thing. At least it seems that way to me, because I can't imagien what they should be smiling about. On the bright side, some people do break through. I heard Ottmar Liebert was playing at resorts, and now he sells a lot of CDs. Esteban was discovered at the Hyatt in Scottsdale, where my friend Monti plays! If those guys can make it, who knows...
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Date Dec. 11 2003 5:17:33
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
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Hi Paleto I give guitar lessons, not enough to live from, but just for the sidemoney. I play a long time flamenco guitar, about 15 years, but it was impossible for me to perform. I got too nervous, and my hands start shaking playing before an audiance. for about six years, I go to spain on vacantion, and I performed there a littlebit, and perhaps because I get older, or from the perfomances in spain, my nervousity is drifting away. I finally can play now before people, so I am studying hard now to perform in the future too a littlebit. I have the feeling it is possible now, so I go for it. greetings, Peter
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Date Dec. 11 2003 10:04:52
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Paleto
Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to el ted)
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What prompted the original post is that I am working through a book called The Pathfinder, by Nicholas Lore. It's a career book, but may be one of the better ones out there. I work in an excellent, world famous laboratory (as a research assistant), doing molecular biology, now a little histology too, and could get involved in more things if I wanted to. But I am not motivated to get more involved because I do not feel passionate enough to learn the mountains of information to do more in this field. I have a great boss, we have a good Human resources department, I have good benefits, I work in the most desirable part of San Diego, directly facing the beautiful ocean, with a patio to eat lunch and watch hang-gliders and enjoy the sun and sky. But I feel bored with this life. I do have a burning desire to discover music and it's always been there. I have tried to make decisions which would allow me a more stable lifestyle, but somehow the feeling that I will never be truly happy and truly successful at things other than music does not fade away. I have had some ideas about how I can generate some work in the near future (making contact with some catering companies, or productions companies, universities, etc where I already have contacts who have said "Let me know when you're ready"). But, I also must consider long term opportunities, things like teaching, or anything else you guys can think of. I am now 32, still can't afford to buy a home here and think, if I can't do it with a "normal" job, then I might as well try what I really want. Somehow, one would like to think that with the motivatiion and drive, that one could be successful at most anything they felt that strongly about. Those who have attempted it surely have some valuable experience to share. As I work through the book, I am trying to keep an open mind that another career may be best, we'll see what fits in a few months. In the mean time, researching out possible careers is one of the tasks I face and I sincerely hope others who have not responded will take a moment to think deeply about this thread, and share their experience. Thanks a lot to those who have already posted responses, I really appreciate any (positive or negative) thoughts. If ideas come to you after posting, by all means, please post again. This is a massive topic, with many, many facets, so please keep thinking about this. Again, thank you very much for the thoughts so far. Anthony
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Date Dec. 11 2003 16:30:14
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
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Hi Anthony Trying to make a living besides a regular job is very difficult. I have tried a few things, and the biggest problem with this kind of work, that it cost to much time to gain some money. Or you need too much money for the time that you "work" for instance, you need 2000 dollar a month. You can make two paintings in a month, so you have to sell them within a month for 1000 dollar. The painting is now too expensive to sell both in a month. Or you have 4 performances in a month for an hour so, you must have 250 dollar for a performance. that is too expensifve, perhaps not for one or two times, but you need it every month again, so, 48 performances minimum a year! Or you take a year to write a book, you have to sell it for 24000 dollar then! That is why I think it is very difficult. But if you try it, try it besides your work, and think, when it happens, it happens. Peter.
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Date Dec. 11 2003 17:21:01
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
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Yes, you are right about that, but it is difficult to stay working. It goes for a few times, but keep it running, it is difficult. I make sculptures for instand, I have sometimes expositions, sell something, but not enough. because I am working for more than 100 hours on a sculpture,I have to ask a lot of money for it to make a living. Giving guitarlessons is much easyer earning money. Performing is difficult too I think, you need a lot of performances. But, I do not want to be too negative, I will try it too. guitarlessons for a little steady income, and performances for the rest. Peter.
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Date Dec. 11 2003 19:21:00
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Escribano
Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
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quote:
But, I also must consider long term opportunities, things like teaching, or anything else you guys can think of. If it helps any, careers seem to have a way of finding you. Doing what you want in life, takes a lot more effort and sacrifice. I've been tossing around these kind of thoughts for years. Good luck on your quest. Meantime, I am also looking for a better lifestyle - in Andalucia preferably. San Diego was in the frame once, when I dated a lovely (rich) girl from EL Cajon, She would have supported me in almost any venture, but my ageing parents put the brakes on that one and she had young kids and couldn't come to Europe. Otherwise, I would probably be living somewhere near La Jolla, making my guitars now
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Date Dec. 11 2003 19:37:27
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Paleto
Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Ron.M)
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For whatever it's worth, I am not interested in the gypsy life, although if I choose to do music, it may be my life like it or not :-). My attraction is more fundamentally about music itself, a process of discovery, trying to find novel or interesting things and bringin them to an audience, if I can generate one. I have to honestly answer the question for myself - Do really have the creativity to do it? Right now, I really don't know the answer to that. I feel the creativity below the surface when I practice, but what does that mean? Not sure just yet.. I know I have it pretty good here at work, and I see that. But, I really want more time to progress musically. Perhaps things will evolve into me having more time over the next couple years. Time will tell. There are many, many scientists, and I know I am not one. I just work with them. Seeing that makes working in that environment more difficult. Because I am aware that I have always been more a creative type, than an analytical type, this also affects my judgement. Science is a really good career, a great atmosphere etc. But I have never been strong in the sciences, I always avoided taking science classes. It's just an interest for me, not a fundamental current in my personality - know what I mean? Anthony
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Date Dec. 11 2003 20:22:58
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Billyboy
Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Ron.M)
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Yeh, I aree with that Ron, allthough this class thing varies from North England to South, the examples you gave would be classified as Southern middle class, the northern middle class, would be regarded as lower class in the south, so its relative. All this talk of class may be perplexing for the Yanks amoung us, the class system in the US is more defined on racial grounds ,but the class system in the UK is as strong as ever. The traditional northern working class as existed right up to the 70's doesn't exist anymore, they have moved to the Semi-detached middle class suberbs, and have been replaced by the Underclass, which are the Heroin addicts and that ilk, and the perminent unemployed, that populate the Council estates in places like Newcastle, Manchester, in fact the whole of the North of England, I could go on and on, e.g. upper middle class, lower middle, upper working etc, etc, they all exist, and I could give many examples. Cheers Dave
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Date Dec. 11 2003 23:23:31
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Escribano
Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Billyboy)
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quote:
the class system in the US is more defined on racial grounds Again, I am not convinced. In the US, I would maintain the class system is based on achievement e.g. social, educational and professional, rather than race. Personal wealth is in sync with this, though ill-gotten or entrenpreneurial wealth is not. My parents were working class, council estate, left school at 14, both only children from broken homes. They did not have a clue about education, so as long as I worked and brought home the money, I could sit in my bedroom and practice Santana riffs as much as I wanted (and I did, though I wish it had been flamenco). It appears to me that most UK bands, apart from Genesis, Floyd and the Stones (as notable exceptions) formed in their home towns to escape drudgery (and the weather) and left asap, to escape drudgery but not the weather.
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Date Dec. 12 2003 18:21:37
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Jim Opfer
Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.
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RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
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Paleto, I'm an Architect and have a small practice in Glasgow (Scotland). I've got some good clients and good work but ocassionally when a bad client comes along and we get hammered, my mood changes and I think ' what the hell am I doing here' It's hard work and I can get sued etc... jeez! there's got to be somethin better I can do? So far I've not managed to think just what it could be. I've been learning Flamenco guitar now for over 30 years, on and off with breaks for university etc and at one time I bought a grand piano (still got it) and I decided to learn to play it. So I went for lessons (4 years) but I just couldn't learn to read notation to any reasonable degree and it all fell away when my first son was born, the piano was too loud and a bairn sleeps a lot! So I came back to flamenco guitar, but that time I decided to do two things, first: buy a decent instrument and second: go to Spain and take some lessons. So I got a guitar and went to Paco Pena in Cordoba. That was 1990. Since then, I've got a small (amature/semi pro.) group, three of us, dance, cajon/palmas and guitar. We call ourselves 'Deseo' which I am told means 'I wish'. We do as many gigs as we can and that works out at about 6-10 a year. I'ts fantastic. I might never break away from Architecture, but doing these gigs and getting together for our practice every week, really helps. We do it for fun, we know our limitations but are always working on new material and trying to make our shows as authentic as we can. So my friend, try something similar and see if it makes your path that wee bit straighter. Cheers Jim.
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Date Dec. 14 2003 11:06:15
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