Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Flamenco 9...Binding Hell
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
|
 Flamenco 9...Binding Hell
|
|
|
Went into this a bit hesitant. Old fashioned way of scribing and razoring the lines for the binding and purfling, then using a chisel to remove the wood, or use the electric screaming mimi.??? Either choice was daunting....Either one, one wrong slip...
So I used Bob's bearing kit (something like $200 for a set of like 15), and made slight, repeated, 100th's of an inch cuts - depth and width, until I was where I wanted to be. Was cautious and careful to keep the router very flat, and gently but firmly pressed against the side. Used masking tape on the edges to protect the wood, too.
The scary choice; make several cuts, ensuring a chance to screw up several times, or blast away, hoping not to chip, but making only 2 cuts.... I chose low and slow. Also, was not going to go with a thick binding, and I made the slot to hold the binding AND the purfling, top and bottom, so that I could simply glue the color bands with the macassar binding into the same cut.
This is probably cheating, but it sure made things a lot easier, simpler, and cleaner. 
Cutting the 'arrows' or 'darts' into the bottom at the top point is fun. Many tools were tried until I found a technique and chisel I liked. Hard and tricky; can't make a mistake here, overcut, or damage the neck area. Also, my centers of the cypress sides were quite close at the heel join, so a narrow 2.5mm macassar strip slipped into an enlarged cutout.
What I did not do was add purfling into the sides of the guitar. I just didn't want to tackle this on my first effort, so the little bands of color are top and bottom only.
Cuts were almost perfect, and with a touch of a small wood block, I was ready to bind. Hey....it's fun to be almost glued to the guitar...You have to do each side, so there is a 4-step glue-up. Taped off each area, top and sides, AFTER putting a coat of shellac onto the Euro spruce top, so that the tape won't pull the wood out.
I'll put up a shot of the banding process, as many may not know what this looks like. You have to wet out small areas to a bend in the body, and work fast, pushing the binding down and into the slot, then pull the bands over to hold it tight...
*NOTE TO SELF* Although you can 'double up' on the slots for the rubber bands, make SURE that the wood stopper-knobs are well tucked in and cannot slip out... 
S N A P! Right on the lip and my nose. Nice little cut.
Bob said they heard it in the house: "SNAP..OWWWW! F*&%!!!" He said to his girlfriend;
"Wellll...I didn't hear his body fall, so I guess he's okay..."
In the end, after all the scraper use and sanding blocks, I ended up with a pretty damn nice job for a first effort. Only one or two small 'flat spots' in the purfling, but joints were almost dead on, color-strips aligned, NO gaps at all - no filling was required - anywhere!
Sometimes, I even surprise myself!
First pic is binding hell....
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
 Attachment (1)
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 3 2006 4:31:22
 |
|
Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
|
|
RE: Flamenco 9...Binding Hell (in reply to Ramón)
|
|
|
JB,
Thanks.... And yes, this was a Dream Chance to work in a luthier's shop with his guidance - which is why I jumped on it. Had always thought about this, but to gather tools, build all the jigs, etc......seemed like it would take as long to set up TO build as to build....
Like yesterday. I drilled the string holes in my bridge. Although the string pattern is different than the Barbero, I could still use the 'Barbero' hand drill jig, and just had to move and align each hole, and the jig rotated so I could drill low in back with a slight rise towards the front. Came out perfect....
Bindings? There are some advantages, I would think, to tape. More controlled in certain areas, and a LOT less load on the guitar. I left my top for final sanding, and was glad I did; the pressure of the bands left small marks in the top while doing the bottom bindings. Sanded out fine, but...... Glad I left that part for later.
Bob has soft wood 'suspension blocks' that you can see in the first pic. Even so, there was some slight 'marking'.
I had a thought that if I do this again, I would do the top bindings first (as I did), and then leave them high and go do the bottom (I was anxious and shaved the top bindings). Then, when I did the bottom, I would lay it flat on the binding board (no blocks), and use the high bindings to sit on the board, protecting the soundboard.
I know my comments are probably useless to builders, as you know all this, but remember that I was asked by want-to-maybe-build guys to keep a journal, so they could see and decide if they want to take on a build.
I think at this point, Bob is more excited than me! I am trying to hold back, not get too far out, step-by-step, so I don't rush. Bob thinks the tap tones are "really nice", and is anxious to see what this will produce vs. the Barbero flamencos he builds.
I'm just trying not to screw up!
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 3 2006 15:06:33
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Flamenco 9...Binding Hell (in reply to Ramón)
|
|
|
The guitar looks wonderfull.
The box is pretty deep? is it around 9,5 - 10cm?
Be carefull with this sanding away marks on the top..... It´s what have killed many guitars. They end up looking beautifull, but they loose their soul. We all amke little mistakes, and I personally prefer to leave them if nescessary in order to make the guitar, an artists tool, work well.
Keep up the good spirit and make sure you give it a good stringheight above the soundboard 
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 4 2006 7:19:17
|
|
Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
|
|
RE: Flamenco 9...Binding Hell (in reply to Ramón)
|
|
|
Hola Anders and JB,
Thanks for the compliments!
The soundboard was left slightly thick for just such, but was tapered, as per the instructions, on the backside, so when I 'finish sanded', I would be right around the numbers; 2.0 at the edges, fading into 2.1. I think I'm almost exact, now. I have the 'wash coat' to raise the grain before the shellac, but that is a superfine sand, as you know....
Body thickness is much thicker than a Barbero. I'm around 9.5 at the heel, tapering to the top. My Rodriguez is very similar, so I've gotten used to a slightly bigger body, as my Sevillano is 8.5 at the waist.
This was SUCH a learning experience. So many little details I didn't see through as to how they would relate into the next step. Bob saved my butt many times, but luckily, all the errors were relatively minor.
At this point, I'm just hoping it DOES sound like a guitar when it's all done!! 
String heights - just laying the bridge on and a straight edge, look about 9mm off the board with a string height of 3mm, but it's too early to tell what the saddle nut will have to be for 'buzz', etc., but I think I'm within range. The plans show a 9-10mm height. To be honest, when I get really low guitars, my l-o-n-g fingers have a tendency to golpe when there’s no golpe! I'm 189cm at 86kg....So a little thicker body and a bit more string height isn’t a stretch for me...
JB...Yes, added the carbon rod. The solera had about 2.5mm of relief angle built into it, and has a 2mm string-length compensation built in - 657mm. She’s also 54mm at the nut, with the high E set away from the edge – I REALLY like this, as when I bend or pull a high E, I always have to make sure I don’t pull off the board, so this should be nice (see the pic)
The fretboard was relieved on the bottom, 12th fret back to the soundhole ring. I REALLY took my time on this and got it pretty dead-on. It LOOKS really good, no gaps, and there will be very little fretboard sanding to get it dead-flat..
But will it play???
Who the hell knows. I don't yet share Bob's confidence! lol  but that's just my nerves!
I told Bob;
"I wonder if old luthiers ever die, or if they just go to Binding Hell..."
(forgot this pic)
Saludos y gracias!
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
Attachment (1)
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 5 2006 2:53:14
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.0625 secs.
|
Printable Version
