Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
rafapak

 

Posts: 285
Joined: Aug. 9 2015
 

youtube tutorial on contratiempos in... 

hi

please recommend. i tried to search on my own but found nothing
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 12:01:49
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14966
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to rafapak

quote:

ORIGINAL: rafapak

hi

please recommend. i tried to search on my own but found nothing


Well, this concept is no different than off-beat or counter time rhythms of any musical style. For example, a lot of singing is done where the melody is “contratiempo”. For example that famous pop song that was on the radio “Torn”, the chorus ending

“wide a-wake and I can see the perfect sky is torn”.

Every single syllable (except “wide”) is counter beat, and that is the same concept as say counter time palmas in bulerias (and similar tempo). Once you get the concept and you re-listen to flamenco singing and guitar playing, dance, etc., you realize the simple concept is lost if you over think it because of a 12 count cycle or something like that. It is no different than basic pop music.



Sing it with her, then try it yourself with palmas or tap your foot. Not complicated. “That’s what’s going on” in flamenco too. If you find when you do with her you lock in, but when you do yourself you fall out of time, then SLOW IT DOWN. But not too slow, it has to feel like a groove.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 13:44:58
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14966
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to Ricardo

Here is an other example, a lot slower. The guitar is plucking the up stroke chords on the countratiempo and notice the singing goes right along with it, both on the counter beats. The only real beat reference are the slaps on the guitar body 2 and 4.



It is very odd to me how some guitar players totally understand the above intuitively, but then they encounter Flamenco and read about it, that Compás is difficult etc, and utterly forget that they already knew this concept internally before they “thought about it”, and then lost it completely.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 14:05:56
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to rafapak

What were your search terms?

There's a lot of stuff so suprised you haven't found anything.

Unless you have but just don't know which one to look at as there are many.

Also, your post is pretty abrupt. Id adopt a more pleasant approaxh if i were you. if asking for members time and help.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 15:38:27
 
rafapak

 

Posts: 285
Joined: Aug. 9 2015
 

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Here is an other example, a lot slower. The guitar is plucking the up stroke chords on the countratiempo and notice the singing goes right along with it, both on the counter beats. The only real beat reference are the slaps on the guitar body 2 and 4.



It is very odd to me how some guitar players totally understand the above intuitively, but then they encounter Flamenco and read about it, that Compás is difficult etc, and utterly forget that they already knew this concept internally before they “thought about it”, and then lost it completely.


i remember nuno and gary did this song in sevilla in 1992. i never knew there are contratiempos hiding in this song. thanks for reply
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 17:07:06
 
JasonM

Posts: 2081
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to rafapak

Use a metronome.

But rather than just clap the off beat 1/8th notes, I think an amazing exercise is one Ricardo made a good post about a long time ago of dividing the click into 16th notes, and trying to hit one of the 1/16ths per click. After you practice that, hitting the ‘and’ will feel easy! (Probably in one of the threads about victor wooten and metronome)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 17:29:32
 
rafapak

 

Posts: 285
Joined: Aug. 9 2015
 

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to JasonM

i dont get it. sixteenth notes are counted : one e and a, two e and a

on which parts of the beat we have metronome and on which we have clapping with hands ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 17:52:07
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1637
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to rafapak

quote:


i remember nuno and gary did this song in sevilla in 1992. i never knew there are contratiempos hiding in this song. thanks for reply

Contratiempo is everywhere. Not only in flamenco. Listen to bossa nova, ska or reggae. Off beats are accented and cut off right away.

Horn


Guitar & keyboard start at 0:40.


_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 18:10:43
 
rafapak

 

Posts: 285
Joined: Aug. 9 2015
 

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to devilhand

i think it is here too
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2024 19:25:26
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to rafapak

Yes all these pop music examples are...err great. But isn't this a flamenco forum??

Surely this is more like what you are after no?

https://youtu.be/lYoY9H9WXX4?si=h0NW3Vmyd6NfH1wX


Hmm somehow it won't embed the video.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2024 0:00:09
 
JasonM

Posts: 2081
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to rafapak

quote:

i dont get it. sixteenth notes are counted : one e and a, two e and


The metronome click falls on the downbeat: ‘one’ ….’two’….
The ‘and’ is the middle. Start by just playing/clapping the ‘and’
Once you got that down, play just the ‘a’
Then just the ‘e’
Then maybe start mixing it up. Play the ‘e’s and the ‘a’s. Play the ‘and’ and the ‘a’

Learning the 1/16th note subdivision like this will unlock The Matrix for you. Versus just trying to clap off beats.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2024 1:39:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14966
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to Stu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Yes all these pop music examples are...err great. But isn't this a flamenco forum??

Surely this is more like what you are after no?

https://youtu.be/lYoY9H9WXX4?si=h0NW3Vmyd6NfH1wX


Hmm somehow it won't embed the video.


The point I was trying to make was that videos like that one make it sound like a difficult complex thing….even at times he messes up the tempo. He does nothing incorrect (subbeats I have never heard in English, it is “off beat accents” or just “off beats” or counter beats is fine like it translates), but in the end I feel that approach to discussing it makes it seem elusive or flamenco specific, like you have to be a club member to understand the concept, and take tons of time practicing to get it correct. The truth is, if you can simply tap in to a simple melody with words that you are familiar with and apply it to flamenco compas, it is instantly natural with zero practice. The trick is to figure which melody or lyric or popular thing in your head that can do the job. The example that Devil gave of Reggae was a good one actually because everybody knows that sound…the problem is it is a bit too slow for what is needed. That is why that “Torn” song really works better because of the tempo she is going is as fast as you need for say Bulerias but it is such a simple tune. Again, to unlock the concept I am going for something that does not need to be a slow drill or exercise that goes hit or miss for hours of practice time, but rather, something that hits the spot immediately.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2024 11:59:32
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to Ricardo

Yes completely agree.

I appreciate what everyone was doing.

Even the word contratiempo has a secret, mystical vibe. (kind of futuristic vibe)


Just thought I'd share an actual flamenco contra video too.

But all helpful stuff.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2024 14:31:13
 
rafapak

 

Posts: 285
Joined: Aug. 9 2015
 

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to JasonM

quote:

The metronome click falls on the downbeat: ‘one’ ….’two’….
The ‘and’ is the middle. Start by just playing/clapping the ‘and’
Once you got that down, play just the ‘a’
Then just the ‘e’
Then maybe start mixing it up. Play the ‘e’s and the ‘a’s. Play the ‘and’ and the ‘a’

Learning the 1/16th note subdivision like this will unlock The Matrix for you. Versus just trying to clap off beats.


thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2024 19:26:43
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1637
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempo... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: rafapak

hi

please recommend. i tried to search on my own but found nothing


Well, this concept is no different than off-beat or counter time rhythms of any musical style. For example, a lot of singing is done where the melody is “contratiempo”. For example that famous pop song that was on the radio “Torn”, the chorus ending

“wide a-wake and I can see the perfect sky is torn”.

Every single syllable (except “wide”) is counter beat, and that is the same concept as say counter time palmas in bulerias (and similar tempo). Once you get the concept and you re-listen to flamenco singing and guitar playing, dance, etc., you realize the simple concept is lost if you over think it because of a 12 count cycle or something like that. It is no different than basic pop music.



Sing it with her, then try it yourself with palmas or tap your foot. Not complicated. “That’s what’s going on” in flamenco too. If you find when you do with her you lock in, but when you do yourself you fall out of time, then SLOW IT DOWN. But not too slow, it has to feel like a groove.

Video unavailable. The uploader has not made this video available in your country.
Could you post another link?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2024 19:21:35
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.