rafapak -> youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 12:01:49)
hi
please recommend. i tried to search on my own but found nothing
Ricardo -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 13:44:58)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rafapak
hi
please recommend. i tried to search on my own but found nothing
Well, this concept is no different than off-beat or counter time rhythms of any musical style. For example, a lot of singing is done where the melody is “contratiempo”. For example that famous pop song that was on the radio “Torn”, the chorus ending
“wide a-wake and I can see the perfect sky is torn”.
Every single syllable (except “wide”) is counter beat, and that is the same concept as say counter time palmas in bulerias (and similar tempo). Once you get the concept and you re-listen to flamenco singing and guitar playing, dance, etc., you realize the simple concept is lost if you over think it because of a 12 count cycle or something like that. It is no different than basic pop music.
Sing it with her, then try it yourself with palmas or tap your foot. Not complicated. “That’s what’s going on” in flamenco too. If you find when you do with her you lock in, but when you do yourself you fall out of time, then SLOW IT DOWN. But not too slow, it has to feel like a groove.
Ricardo -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 14:05:56)
Here is an other example, a lot slower. The guitar is plucking the up stroke chords on the countratiempo and notice the singing goes right along with it, both on the counter beats. The only real beat reference are the slaps on the guitar body 2 and 4.
It is very odd to me how some guitar players totally understand the above intuitively, but then they encounter Flamenco and read about it, that Compás is difficult etc, and utterly forget that they already knew this concept internally before they “thought about it”, and then lost it completely. [:D]
Stu -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 15:38:27)
What were your search terms?
There's a lot of stuff so suprised you haven't found anything.
Unless you have but just don't know which one to look at as there are many.
Also, your post is pretty abrupt. Id adopt a more pleasant approaxh if i were you. if asking for members time and help.
rafapak -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 17:07:06)
quote:
Here is an other example, a lot slower. The guitar is plucking the up stroke chords on the countratiempo and notice the singing goes right along with it, both on the counter beats. The only real beat reference are the slaps on the guitar body 2 and 4.
It is very odd to me how some guitar players totally understand the above intuitively, but then they encounter Flamenco and read about it, that Compás is difficult etc, and utterly forget that they already knew this concept internally before they “thought about it”, and then lost it completely.
i remember nuno and gary did this song in sevilla in 1992. i never knew there are contratiempos hiding in this song. thanks for reply
JasonM -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 17:29:32)
Use a metronome.
But rather than just clap the off beat 1/8th notes, I think an amazing exercise is one Ricardo made a good post about a long time ago of dividing the click into 16th notes, and trying to hit one of the 1/16ths per click. After you practice that, hitting the ‘and’ will feel easy! (Probably in one of the threads about victor wooten and metronome)
rafapak -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 17:52:07)
i dont get it. sixteenth notes are counted : one e and a, two e and a
on which parts of the beat we have metronome and on which we have clapping with hands ?
devilhand -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 18:10:43)
quote:
i remember nuno and gary did this song in sevilla in 1992. i never knew there are contratiempos hiding in this song. thanks for reply
Contratiempo is everywhere. Not only in flamenco. Listen to bossa nova, ska or reggae. Off beats are accented and cut off right away.
Horn
Guitar & keyboard start at 0:40.
rafapak -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 9 2024 19:25:26)
i think it is here too
Stu -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 10 2024 0:00:09)
Yes all these pop music examples are...err great. But isn't this a flamenco forum??
JasonM -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 10 2024 1:39:33)
quote:
i dont get it. sixteenth notes are counted : one e and a, two e and
The metronome click falls on the downbeat: ‘one’ ….’two’…. The ‘and’ is the middle. Start by just playing/clapping the ‘and’ Once you got that down, play just the ‘a’ Then just the ‘e’ Then maybe start mixing it up. Play the ‘e’s and the ‘a’s. Play the ‘and’ and the ‘a’
Learning the 1/16th note subdivision like this will unlock The Matrix for you. Versus just trying to clap off beats.
Ricardo -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 10 2024 11:59:32)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu
Yes all these pop music examples are...err great. But isn't this a flamenco forum??
The point I was trying to make was that videos like that one make it sound like a difficult complex thing….even at times he messes up the tempo. He does nothing incorrect (subbeats I have never heard in English, it is “off beat accents” or just “off beats” or counter beats is fine like it translates), but in the end I feel that approach to discussing it makes it seem elusive or flamenco specific, like you have to be a club member to understand the concept, and take tons of time practicing to get it correct. The truth is, if you can simply tap in to a simple melody with words that you are familiar with and apply it to flamenco compas, it is instantly natural with zero practice. The trick is to figure which melody or lyric or popular thing in your head that can do the job. The example that Devil gave of Reggae was a good one actually because everybody knows that sound…the problem is it is a bit too slow for what is needed. That is why that “Torn” song really works better because of the tempo she is going is as fast as you need for say Bulerias but it is such a simple tune. Again, to unlock the concept I am going for something that does not need to be a slow drill or exercise that goes hit or miss for hours of practice time, but rather, something that hits the spot immediately.
Stu -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 10 2024 14:31:13)
Yes completely agree.
I appreciate what everyone was doing.
Even the word contratiempo has a secret, mystical vibe. (kind of futuristic vibe) [:D]
Just thought I'd share an actual flamenco contra video too.
But all helpful stuff.
rafapak -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 19 2024 19:26:43)
quote:
The metronome click falls on the downbeat: ‘one’ ….’two’…. The ‘and’ is the middle. Start by just playing/clapping the ‘and’ Once you got that down, play just the ‘a’ Then just the ‘e’ Then maybe start mixing it up. Play the ‘e’s and the ‘a’s. Play the ‘and’ and the ‘a’
Learning the 1/16th note subdivision like this will unlock The Matrix for you. Versus just trying to clap off beats.
thanks
devilhand -> RE: youtube tutorial on contratiempos in flamenco recommendation (May 20 2024 19:21:35)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: rafapak
hi
please recommend. i tried to search on my own but found nothing
Well, this concept is no different than off-beat or counter time rhythms of any musical style. For example, a lot of singing is done where the melody is “contratiempo”. For example that famous pop song that was on the radio “Torn”, the chorus ending
“wide a-wake and I can see the perfect sky is torn”.
Every single syllable (except “wide”) is counter beat, and that is the same concept as say counter time palmas in bulerias (and similar tempo). Once you get the concept and you re-listen to flamenco singing and guitar playing, dance, etc., you realize the simple concept is lost if you over think it because of a 12 count cycle or something like that. It is no different than basic pop music.
Sing it with her, then try it yourself with palmas or tap your foot. Not complicated. “That’s what’s going on” in flamenco too. If you find when you do with her you lock in, but when you do yourself you fall out of time, then SLOW IT DOWN. But not too slow, it has to feel like a groove.
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