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What technique is this?   You are logged in as Guest
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metalhead

 

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 15 2023
 

What technique is this? 

https://youtu.be/TR7JKzHotws?si=LhjFqMHNbaEnO2nI&t=126

at 2:06 and 2:07 the guy does 2 rasgueos what sounds like abanicos to me but on closer inspection it doesn't exactly look like a abanico, looks like a p up and a m i . Never heard of this technique before?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2024 18:06:53
 
rombsix

Posts: 7848
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to metalhead

I actually think it is a tresillo, just muted really quickly thereafter.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2024 19:09:14
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1907
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to metalhead

It is actually a P up followed by ami, but in 99% of the cases you'll only hear the P m i. You'll see this a lot mostly with Jerezanos.

Actually Luciano uses it quite a bit too, his videos are very good quality so you might want to slow one of those down to see what happens. You'll often hear a golpe as well as the P moves upwards - that comes from Paco de Lucía.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2024 20:30:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14971
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ

It is actually a P up followed by ami, but in 99% of the cases you'll only hear the P m i. You'll see this a lot mostly with Jerezanos.

Actually Luciano uses it quite a bit too, his videos are very good quality so you might want to slow one of those down to see what happens. You'll often hear a golpe as well as the P moves upwards - that comes from Paco de Lucía.


Yep. Although I would say more often, and the way I learned from Nuñez, it is P up, a down, i down mute … not m because m is a bit too long and the idea is super fast grace note type thing. In simplest concept it is up with thumb like the rumba strum where the back of the nail is hitting the soundboard below the treble strings on the “ah” or pick up note, and the fingers down (or a single finger down) on the accented beat, followed by a mute. The fingers down are simply broken apart timing wise as needed so the last finger is on the beat. This is a more aggressive substitute for what I call the “snake bite” cierre, which is like when you are doing a closing phrase on the tonic chord with golpe on 7-8 and up strokes with index in between those, then a quick flick or rasgueado “stab”, m down, i down, i UP on the 10 (mute happens with left hand on these). Sometimes it depends on chord voicing how this is used (snake bite ends with only treble string, whereas the thing we describe gets more middle notes involved).

I would not say this has to do with PDL innovations, I am sure I have seen Cepero use it, and people outside of Jerez. I will keep an historical eye out for it. This technique deserves a special name IMO to differentiate it from normal abanicos. I am open to ideas?

Edit: there is some video I recall out there where PDL is playing a slower abandolao gallop with abanicos and it is a slow version P up a down i down, and he is hitting the back of the nail noticeably each pulgar up stroke. When I find that I will post it here. That is basically the same idea in a different context, and I don’t think is his innovation.

So here, watch from 32:00 onward, and notice the clicking golpes every time his thumb comes upward on the rasgueados. So it is basically that but you can add your m finger if you want and imagine the hand opens up and you mute with an open hand if you want.

https://youtu.be/kEe6QJqjkvc?si=6LUlUyQtaWNvmaZH

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2024 11:58:31
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

This technique deserves a special name IMO to differentiate it from normal abanicos. I am open to ideas?


I use p,ami, though the a and m make one noise so it has a triplet sound.

It feels like I'm throwing my right hand ami, so how about arrojar? But I see so many Jerez players doing it, they must have a name for it?

I also occasionally use flicked m down, i down, i UP; 'snake bite' makes sense. They're both pretty aggressive.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2024 17:28:55
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1907
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to Ricardo

Yeah it's definitely not a PdL thing, but he used it often and through his pieces I learned of the existence of this technique; the golpe was unusual on a P up movement, then I saw Moraíto doing the same thing, and as my ears developed I took notice of who's doing it. Most people tend to not do the golpe, it's quite difficult as it is to get it right.
There must be a name for this already? I love "snake bite" but it doesn't roll off the tongue in Spanish :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2024 18:07:46
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1637
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to metalhead

quote:

Never heard of this technique before?

Nothing new. It's Morate abanico pmp (p up, m down, p down). P downstroke is muted. One can play am or ami instead of m. In your video above it's either am or ami.

At 0:11 Benito adds two 16th notes as grace notes to the muted downstroke which I like more.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2024 22:24:09
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to devilhand

quote:

Nothing new. It's Morate abanico pmp (p up, m down, p down). P downstroke is muted. One can play am or ami instead of m.


This is not Marote abanico. There is no p down. It's p up, a down, i down, or p up, am down, i down.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2024 23:59:02
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1637
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to orsonw

quote:

There is no p down.

Of course there's no P down because it's muted.
It's Morate abanico triplet without P downstroke (p up, am down or ami down). You hear 2 beats. The third beat is not played.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2024 1:22:40
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to devilhand

quote:

It's Morate abanico triplet without P downstroke (p up, am down or ami down). You hear 2 beats. The third beat is not played.


Hi Devilhand, you're missing out on a rasgeo that you might find useful.

Have another listen, they're close together but it is three notes/strikes in this technique, the 2nd strike more like a grace note. Read Richard's, Ricardo's and my explanations if that helps you understand what's going on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2024 11:24:27
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14971
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to orsonw

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

quote:

It's Morate abanico triplet without P downstroke (p up, am down or ami down). You hear 2 beats. The third beat is not played.


Hi Devilhand, you're missing out on a rasgeo that you might find useful.

Have another listen, they're close together but it is three notes/strikes in this technique, the 2nd strike more like a grace note. Read Richard's, Ricardo's and my explanations if that helps you understand what's going on.


Just ignore it man, he has no clue what he is seeing or hearing. Anyone can slow it down it is the typical thing I described, normal abanico but the hand opens up. P up, a down, i down, three notes, and m finger is up and out of the way (not involved), and THIS is the standard I am most familiar with. The version of the OP is more rare where m gets involved, making a faster triplet.

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2024 13:23:55
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1637
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Anyone can slow it down it is the typical thing I described, normal abanico but the hand opens up. P up, a down, i down, three notes, and m finger is up and out of the way (not involved)

Yes, it's p a i or p am i. Not Marote abanico. This happens when one doesn't slow down the video. Can you see which rasgueado Paco plays at 5:30?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2024 21:48:28
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14971
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What technique is this? (in reply to devilhand

P-a-i, like a gallop rather than even triplet, the i stroke being longer time. You can see more clear at the very end after the scale run with a better angle.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2024 11:40:16
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