Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





RE: I change my opinion about Vicente Amigo   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
JasonM

Posts: 2080
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Ricardo

One day I want to hear the tale of tale of the Flemish flamencos. It’s like the the prequel series to flamemco before Bilbo Baggins left the shire and moved to Spain to make jazzmenco
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2024 23:35:41
 
metalhead

 

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 15 2023
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Ricardo

i hope he wasn't hurt when he read my comments
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2024 16:04:30
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to metalhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: metalhead

i hope he wasn't hurt when he read my comments


He must have thought it was cool that someone changed his mind about his music.



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2024 11:32:15
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1635
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to metalhead

Don't forget Nino Josele.



_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2024 18:22:48
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

Don't forget him?? In what sense?

Is he relevant here?

Or are we just naming guitarists?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2024 1:08:29
 
Manitas de Lata

Posts: 664
Joined: Oct. 9 2018
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

mullet , cigarette and gold chain , pure gipsy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2024 10:25:23
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Don't forget Nino Josele.




You mean Tomatito???

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2024 11:35:26
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1635
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Stu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Don't forget him?? In what sense?

Is he relevant here?

Or are we just naming guitarists?

The point is there are other flamenco guitarists out there who are as good as V. Amigo. I don't get the hype around V. Amigo or A. Rey on the foro.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2024 18:42:20
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1907
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

Part of the hype is technical, another part is that they've created their own, recognisable style and tone, and they've been consistently producing new music, with some real gems. There aren't many of those around. I can probably count them on one hand. Niño Josele, as good as he is, I'd never recognise.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2024 21:12:19
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

I don't get the hype around V. Amigo or A. Rey on the foro.


There's a lot you 'don't get'

It's not just one the foro.

If you like the music or not..... It's still possible to 'understand the hype' and understand exactly what those two artists can do and have achieved. And in the genre you claim to be interested in.

Whether it's to your taste or not, if you can't understand why people regard those two players so highly, then you have some thinking to do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2024 23:24:03
 
Mark2

Posts: 1891
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

As good? Subjective. As successful in creating a career as a soloist today? Name 'em.

VA is way ahead of Antonio but he's been around longer and has more recordings. AR is working hard to take his place among the world's best known flamenco solo players.

The music BUSINESS is full of hype. But both those guys can really play. And they have written a lot of music. Have you seen either one live? I sat ten feet in front of Antonio Rey a month ago while he proved(again) he's one of the best guitar players on the planet. The best flameco player? Again, subjective.


quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Don't forget him?? In what sense?

Is he relevant here?

Or are we just naming guitarists?

The point is there are other flamenco guitarists out there who are as good as V. Amigo. I don't get the hype around V. Amigo or A. Rey on the foro.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2024 23:45:27
 
Manitas de Lata

Posts: 664
Joined: Oct. 9 2018
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

Antonio is flamenco 3.0

Still have Vicente , Tomatito and others , Antonio is the "new" king for several people.... for others is still a prince...

If we regard performance Antonio Rey is the King
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2024 11:53:09
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Don't forget him?? In what sense?

Is he relevant here?

Or are we just naming guitarists?

The point is there are other flamenco guitarists out there who are as good as V. Amigo. I don't get the hype around V. Amigo or A. Rey on the foro.


“As good as”?? You base that on that video where he is trying to play Tomatito’s falsetas?? Why not skip the middle man and admit you like Tomatito’s music better? (Unless you are clueless that was Tomatito’s falseta).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2024 15:10:13
 
Auda

 

Posts: 248
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to JasonM

I think Devilhand is playing trollmenco again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2024 16:16:17
 
JasonM

Posts: 2080
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Stu

Well said, Stu!

If old school is the main inspiration, and you have only a few years of flamenco under your belt, then it might take many years to appreciate who VA is. It was the opposite for me, Jucal was my second flamenco album after Luzia. I didn’t understand a lick of it but I was still obsessed. Hated old school!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2024 23:18:59
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1635
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

You base that on that video where he is trying to play Tomatito’s falsetas??

That was just one example.

quote:

it might take many years to appreciate who VA is.

No doubt V.Amigo is a monster player. But that doesnt make him a good composer. Listen to his track Roma. A bunch of arpegiated chords. Nothing special. A lot of people seem to like it. To each his own.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2024 11:05:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

That was just one example.


Bad example. You don’t know what you are talking about…clearly. Get a flamenco guitar, stop trolling about topics you don’t yet understand. In case you missed the point (of course you did), someone actually learned something here and developed an appreciation and taste for something they had not before. Get a clue, and stop the typical negativity, show some respect. Take some classes, learn something and stop talking over other people trying to develop the right way.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2024 11:53:42
 
amigo

 

Posts: 276
Joined: Nov. 1 2008
From: Greece

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to JasonM

I completely agree, Ricardo. Unfortunately people who don't know almost anything ... dare and have opinions.
That's ridiculous

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2024 14:28:15
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1907
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to amigo

...and they vote too :D
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2024 15:46:15
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

. A lot of people seem to like it


Which may well mean he is a good composer.


Tell me, have you listened to any of his albums pre 2000?

Jee, what's the point really? Wasting my time on you.
I could be playing the guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2024 14:17:31
 
Norman Paul Kliman

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 5 2023
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to JasonM

quote:

Hated old school!


What did you hate about it? I get that modern guitarists are much more skilled nowadays and that most people don't like listening to old scratchy recordings. Did it have something to do with that?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2024 7:10:25
 
JasonM

Posts: 2080
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman

Hey Norm,

Hate is a strong word! I’m not exactly sure what about old school didn’t appeal. It was not just all about technique , but the modern compositions just resonated more.

Also I was a young 20 years old at the time and just starting out in flamenco, burned out from classical guitar, wanting to play super modern advanced stuff, all with a teacher that was incredibly traditional (To this guy Nino Ricardo is Jazz ) So kinda drive me nuts and left me bit frustrated
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2024 16:38:08
 
Norman Paul Kliman

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 5 2023
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to JasonM

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t care for most old stuff at first, either. In fact, it took me a few years to warm up to any kind of cante. In my case, "hate" was pretty close to the truth of the matter, ha-ha. It sounded like overblown drunken opera to me. The first flamenco that really shook me up was the bulería Patio jerezano from Manolo Sanlúcar’s album Recital flamenco. Made me want to howl at the moon or something. Eventually, I somehow discovered Melchor and started buying recordings of Pastora just to hear the guitar. But I didn’t like her singing at all.

quote:

To this guy Nino Ricardo is Jazz

Let me guess: He liked Perico del Lunar, right?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2024 17:34:52
 
JasonM

Posts: 2080
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

Let me guess: He liked Perico del Lunar, right?


Close!

Drunken opera is a good description. I wonder if any of us westerners/Europeans non gitanos actually enjoyed cante from the get go? Pretty sure I also went from modern canteaors to older. In fact thanks for hosting great info on your website!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2024 21:20:48
 
Norman Paul Kliman

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 5 2023
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to JasonM

My pleasure, Jason. The reactions are sometimes pretty strong. People seem to have more of a sense of adventure about what they’ll put in their mouth (food) than in their ears.

When I was teaching English in Madrid, I had a British colleague about my age whose mother was from Alicante, and he spoke Spanish without the slightest accent. Just flawless, with all the lightning-fast wit and charm of native speakers (in the best of cases, of course). We were kind of in awe of him. One day, I had him listen to Camarón’s “Otra galaxia.” He was silent until the end, and then angrily shouted, You mean they pay this guy to sing like that?!!! I wouldn’t have been as surprised if he’d reacted that way to Agujetas, but Camarón? Personally, he’s not among my top five favorites, but come on: his singing is like ice cream!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2024 21:50:08
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

People seem to have more of a sense of adventure about what they’ll put in their mouth (food) than in their ears.


haha, this is a great quote! i love it. and profoundly true!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2024 7:13:23
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Stu

quote:

“As good as”?? You base that on that video where he is trying to play Tomatito’s falsetas?? Why not skip the middle man and admit you like Tomatito’s music better? (Unless you are clueless that was Tomatito’s falseta).




haha. hey devilhand. Here's VA at 16 playing at least 1 Tomatito falseta better than nino. maybe better than tomatito! ahha at 16! NOW do you get it?

For your own good, listen to De mi Corazon al Aire! Vivencias Imaginadas, Cuidad de Las Ideas. even Un Momento en el Sonido.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2024 11:41:14
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Stu

Josele used to play very much like Tomatito in general, but I remember after Vicente introduced this “romantic” way to accompany the palos with Remedios Amaya, Jose Merce, and soon Pele (he used to do it differently, more aggressive), I realized this “suave” toque for the cante was getting traction when Josele recorded this album. It is a very obvious change of style and inspired by Vicente:



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2024 13:47:30
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

My pleasure, Jason. The reactions are sometimes pretty strong. People seem to have more of a sense of adventure about what they’ll put in their mouth (food) than in their ears.

When I was teaching English in Madrid, I had a British colleague about my age whose mother was from Alicante, and he spoke Spanish without the slightest accent. Just flawless, with all the lightning-fast wit and charm of native speakers (in the best of cases, of course). We were kind of in awe of him. One day, I had him listen to Camarón’s “Otra galaxia.” He was silent until the end, and then angrily shouted, You mean they pay this guy to sing like that?!!! I wouldn’t have been as surprised if he’d reacted that way to Agujetas, but Camarón? Personally, he’s not among my top five favorites, but come on: his singing is like ice cream!


My friends from Bolivia got into flamenco as kids and sing with the type of quejio the Gypsy kings do, obviously copying voice “afilla” and such, copying Camaron etc. When they were young doing local gigs in their home town, they performed at some venue, had the place packed and people dancing, a big hit. At the end when they went to get paid the owner of the venue said “you actually want me to pay for THAT?? You sing like a Frog!!”.

This sound is an aesthetic that is going back to Planeta and Fillo discussing the issue of vocal quality in the 1830’s account, and hence the name voice “afilla”. My personal first encounter with cante was Carmen Amaya with Sabicas. The voice and footwork were both “noisy” and exotic, but off putting as I couldn’t hear the guitar well. Later I got into collecting Paco de Lucia albums, guided by a discography in Guitar magazine by “Marcos” (London). He describes Camaron and paco relationship as recording artists. I purchased Cada Vez que Nos Miramos, and with the text guide about forms, I totally got into right away. Still a favorite album today, my favorite cantes on there, Solea de Serneta, Fandango de Gloria, Siguiriyas, buleria with the “llamarme otro doctor”, etc. Maybe because I had taste for heavy metal singers etc., I don’t know why but I got the whole thing right away how the guitar and voice worked together. Then I found the live ablum in Germany with Cepero and Maria Vargas (paco played guajiras etc, Festival Flamenco), and realized Cepero was even BETTER than PDL at following the woman singer. I had an opera singer girl friend at the time and shared with her Maria’s buleria and fandango, and she thought it was good singing. Then the different singers on Tauromagia, el “Moro” aka Indio Gitano and i soon discovered Nuñez.

So I very much liked it right away, and of course Carmen Amaya was not a “great cantaora”, so it was understandable my first impression was a little not fair. But since those early days i have gravitated to MUCH older singers. I like Rafael Moreno and Niño de La isla these days.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2024 14:00:19
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 223
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: I change my opinion about Vicent... (in reply to metalhead

OK so I just listened to Vicentes new album, what a departure!. It is very jazzy sounding, but thats not a bad thing. I still really like it though and plan to have a listen to it in my listening room to properly digest it. I also really like his album Poeta, even if it's only inspired by flamenco.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 22 2024 19:01:14
Page:   <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.125 secs.