Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login | |
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together (in reply to devilhand)
|
|
|
quote:
123 and 5 have the same note value. 4 has two times more note value than other notes because it took up the value of the omitted beat. You can put rest after 4 but this guy played it without rest. If there was a rest, all notes 12345 would have the same note value. A rest would represent the omitted beat or note between 4 and 5. No you don’t understand AT ALL. Triplet 16th notes have a time value often referred to as “24th notes”, because in standard 4/4, 24 of them fit all the way across. 16th notes are called that because 16 of them fit across a bar of 4. These are naming conventions so that one understands relative speeds or time values, as you say. So therefore, by the notation presented in the said example and the CORRECT EXECUTION the computer managed to do you claim was erroneous…. NO! 1,2,3 are NOT the same value as 5. 1,2,3 are 24th notes and 4 and 5 are 16th notes. That is not a 50% difference it is literally a ratio between 16 and 24, or 2/3. That ratio is felt as slowing down the LENGTH of the time between notes 4 and 5. The time value between 3 and 4 was as fast as it was going previously. Get a teacher man.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 25 2023 17:09:49
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together (in reply to mark indigo)
|
|
|
quote:
this thread is really hurting my head! I checked the video at 4:06, and I slowed it down to half speed. I tapped on and off the beat (so twice the speed of the beat, double time). Seemed like in the first beat of the bar the 3 16th notes beamed together were a triplet on the beat, and the other 2 16th notes beamed together came in off the beat (my 2nd tap). Simply put, this exercise is challenging for top level drummers (a thing to work on) is because people tend to rush the 24th notes and drag the 16ths, not feeling the correct slowdown. I would have to observe you doing it but seems like you are making the typical error, which is again, the point of the exercise. He also was including it because some people erroneously execute the 5 tuplet as such, feeling it unevenly to account for the “lost” secondary beat (8th note pulse). Devilhand first claimed 5/4 for sliddx example (Romerito correctly identified as 4/4), demonstrating as I have been saying, a complete lack of understanding, and yet, he continues to send advice with sliddx demanding an explanation after arguing with him. Yes, it hurts anybody’s head. (Ps give it up sliddx!!!)
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 25 2023 17:21:06
|
|
kitarist
Posts: 1717
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together (in reply to Ricardo)
|
|
|
quote:
That is not a 50% difference it is literally a ratio between 16 and 24, or 2/3 It sure is: note 5 (or 4) is 50% longer than notes 1, 2, or 3. Or, mathematically, 1/16 is literally a 50% larger number than 1/24 (3/48 versus 2/48). You are just reading it in reverse, effectively saying that note 1 (or 2, or 3) is 2/3 of the length of note 5, which is also true, but what I said was that note 5 is 50% longer than note 1 (or 2, or 3). So, not sure what you point of correction is here "that is not a 50% difference".
_____________________________
Konstantin
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 25 2023 18:02:19
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together (in reply to kitarist)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist quote:
That is not a 50% difference it is literally a ratio between 16 and 24, or 2/3 It sure is: note 5 (or 4) is 50% longer than notes 1, 2, or 3. Or, mathematically, 1/16 is literally a 50% larger number than 1/24 (3/48 versus 2/48). You are just reading it in reverse, effectively saying that note 1 (or 2, or 3) is 2/3 of the length of note 5, which is also true, but what I said was that note 5 is 50% longer than note 1 (or 2, or 3). So, not sure what you point of correction is here "that is not a 50% difference". Hmmm. I guess I mean the opposite, that a triplet 16th is not half the speed or duration of a normal 16th….that would be a single 32nd note. Basically you are trying to say add a 32nd note triplet duration to a 16th note triplet duration and that equals a perfectly normal 16th value??? Seem overly complex math for a simple concept (which he still doesn’t understand obviously no matter what math we use).
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 26 2023 16:56:05
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together (in reply to mark indigo)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo quote:
Simply put, this exercise is challenging for top level drummers (a thing to work on) is because people tend to rush the 24th notes and drag the 16ths, not feeling the correct slowdown. I would have to observe you doing it but seems like you are making the typical error, which is again, the point of the exercise. I did it wrong? I did exactly as Romerito described: quote:
Don't count...feel. Set metronome to 2/4. Play a triplet on the strong beat and a duplet on the weak beat. .... 1----------2 Tri-pl-et---du-plet thread is hurting my head because of devilhand's bizarre and barely comprehensible, or completely comprehensible ramblings. OOOPS my bad. I read what you wrote earlier as IT WAS OFF BEAT, meaning your tap did not line up, but what you meant was the UP BEAT, between 1 and 2, basically without properly saying it, the example was executed correctly. Sorry. That was my misreading, but because the example is in question here, and you lead with “my head hurts” as if you did not understand something, it came out negative.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 26 2023 17:09:12
|
|
mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
|
RE: Five sixteenth notes beamed together (in reply to Ricardo)
|
|
|
quote:
Perhaps for future reference we use flamenco terms. “Off beat” is almost like “fuera Tiempo”, versus “up beat” or “counter time” we use “contra Tiempo”. “Up beat” can mean a lot of things of course, but if we attach that to a note value “Up beat 8th note” or “up beat 16ths” then it is crystal clear in context. I am sure I have made confusing statements too. ah, I see, I said "off the beat", meaning the contratiempo, or "and" between the beats, and you read it as out of time, I can see that's confusing. Unfortunately I had no training in either classical or jazz before flamenco, so I have the typical hodge-podge of bits of terminology (and theory) that I'm trying to get straightened out so I can communicate clearly. Also, in the USA you use half notes, quarter notes, eighth notes, etc. and in the UK classically trained musicians use minims, crotchets, quavers etc. and in Spanish blancas, negras, corcheas etc. It can get confusing, but to be honest I find the US half, quarter, eighth etc. makes more sense and I always muddle semi-breve and minims... fuera-tiempo and contra-tiempo are clear as day though.
_____________________________
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 26 2023 18:24:24
|
|
New Messages |
No New Messages |
Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
Locked w/ New Messages |
Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.078125 secs.
|