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Morante

 

Posts: 1935
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

future of flamenco 

Niñ0 de Elche, Rosalía and now La Tremendita!

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 12:11:43
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

haha. at the risk of taking this too seriously.... how is his related to flamenco? its just spanish pop right?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 12:19:15
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 529
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

La Tremendita seems to pop up everywhere.

Modern stuff isn't ALL bad though.

Tercer cielo by Rocío Márquez is pretty good IMO. Works well live too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 12:19:28
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1935
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Stu

quote:

its just spanish pop right?


Unfortunately she is taken seriously as flamenco: she was contracted for Jueves Flamenco in Cádiz last week (with Tomás de Perrate!!!).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 13:35:42
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1935
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to mrstwinkle

quote:

Tercer cielo by Rocío Márquez is pretty good IMO. Works well live too


Seriously?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 13:50:45
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

quote:

Unfortunately she is taken seriously as flamenco


Good grief. Its absolute toilet!

Who takes takes this seriously as flamenco?

I suppose if she starts appearing next to actual flamenco artists on the billing at "flamenco" concerts/gigs then its worrying.

Dont get me wrong Im not saying she shouldnt be allowed to do her thing, music is whatever we make it no? and genres must change and develop...but slowly please.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 15:24:03
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1935
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Stu

Tomás.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 15:39:49
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 529
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

That isn't Tercer cielo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 15:43:08
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Stu

quote:

Good grief. Its absolute toilet! Who takes takes this seriously as flamenco?


I have mentioned this in other threads, but at the risk of sounding like Cassandra, I repeat it here. As interest in flamenco declines in Andalusia, Spain, and around the world, it will increasingly occupy an ever-smaller niche, to the point where it eventually will disappear except for a few individuals who keep it alive, much as groups such as the Folger Consort in Washington, DC keep Medieval and Renaissance music alive by mastering period instruments and playing pieces from those eras.

I fear that in time what we have known as flamenco will be absorbed into the miasma of so-called "World Music" and will lose its character, whether or not it is still referred to as "flamenco." The Barbarians are at the gates, and I'm afraid there's no holding them back. Sadly, we will be the poorer for it.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 17:47:51
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

Yes likely any golden age of flamenco is past, although it's probable some were saying exactly that 100 years ago.

But even with the increasingly questionable cross overs and the usually bad record production, currently there is still life in live flamenco puro. It seems there are still young people interested and participating in flamenco. E.g. In the many juerga videos on youtube (although mainly Camaroneros).



And there are still young people aspiring to be flamenco artists and entering competitions like Cante de las Minas etc…


Here’s a list of artists aged under 40 that I appreciate. Any other good young artists to recommend me?

Cante:
Israel Fernandez

Maria Terremoto

Jesus Mendez

Antonio el Turry

Encarna Anillo
Alonso Rancapino Hijo

Esmeralda Rancapino



Baile:

Karime Amaya

Belen Lopez

Claudia "La Debla"

Águeda Saavedra

Gema Moneo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 18:01:25
 
mecmachin

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Aug. 7 2010
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

Perrate rocks. Thanks for posting.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 19:08:30
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

E.g. There are still 20 year olds like Pepe el Boleco singing in the puro tradition.
Here with Antonio Reyes accompanying rather than singing (he didn't make my previous cante list as he's over 40).

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 19:22:28
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw

I didn't mean to suggest that the demise of flamenco as a beloved genre of music was immediate. Interest in flamenco, in Spain and elsewhere, however, has been declining. Years ago, at Lisner Auditorium in Washington, DC, they used to put on a full week's flamenco festival annually, to include performances by guitarists, singers, and dancers. They stopped the annual flamenco festival about ten years or so ago.

Please note that I wrote above, "I fear that in time what we have known as flamenco will be absorbed into the miasma of so-called "World Music" and will lose its character, whether or not it is still referred to as 'flamenco.'" That there are young flamencos still performing today does not change my observation. If I am correct, it is a process that will play itself out over time. Nevertheless, I recognize that I may be wrong. Let's see where it stands, say, 20 or 30 years from now.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 19:49:22
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw

Another young cantaor Manuel de Tomasa. He has the family lineage. Age 18 in the video below, 23 now.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 21:06:48
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

Hello Bill
I didn't intend to contradict your claim, which I think is valid. I am just highlighting some current young artists, and curious for more recommendations of upcoming artists.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 21:15:45
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 529
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

Seriously. Piss off with the whole depressing fatalist 1970s were best fatalist BS.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2022 20:30:51
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

its just spanish pop right?


Unfortunately she is taken seriously as flamenco: she was contracted for Jueves Flamenco in Cádiz last week (with Tomás de Perrate!!!).


;-)

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2022 21:48:37
 
mecmachin

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Aug. 7 2010
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to mrstwinkle

With all respect for Rocio: You can't prevent an artist to express himself, but as an aficiionado I don't appreciate listening.

Contrary to Perrate above. Same old Solea all the time, but he's just sitting there and giving it all...

About the future: No innovation in flamenco has permanently dominated over traditional style so far. So I don't see why the genre should be in danger.

Mecmachin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2022 22:16:28
 
ernandez R

Posts: 575
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to mrstwinkle

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrstwinkle

Seriously. Piss off with the whole depressing fatalist 1970s were best fatalist BS.






I thought this was bad-ass...

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2022 23:43:02
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw

José Montoya Carpio 'El Berenjeno' from the Jerez Carpio family, in his 20s.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2022 9:48:48
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw

Alonso Núñez Heredia “El Purili” Age 18 in video below, 22 now

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2022 14:24:45
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw

Kiko Peña first appeared as a child, now age 26.
I think this is a good example of what you are referring to Bill? He can sing flamenco but his recorded album is "una fusión de estilos donde predominan los boleros con notas jazzísticas y urbana bajo su personal voz flamenca."

Live in July 2022,



compared to this, from his 2022 album.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2022 14:50:27
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw



_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2022 16:08:26
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

hah, so is vicente w/ rodrgio y gabriela meant to be an arguement for or against the point that flamenco is still alive and well??
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2022 8:54:47
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Stu

Here’s another video. The collaboration between the two was not just a photo op. I don’t know what it says about the current state of Flamenco. What metric should we use: Record sales, streams on music apps, festival attendance, the number of new releases by recognized artists within the genre, the number of competitors and quality of competition at the concurso, the number of references to Flamenco in the media..?



_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2022 14:54:42
 
Neil

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Oct. 29 2018
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Morante

Not posted in a while but just popped in and saw this thread.

I have the opposite opinion regarding the likes of Rosario La Tremendita, Rocio Marquez etc.

I think they are vital in keeping flamenco alive. I was at the promotional launch gig for Tercer Cielo by Marquez and Bronquio at the Mirador de Aixa in the Albaicin back in May and it was fantastic. The crowd was a mix of flamenco aficionados of all ages, and young alternative/indie types. If flamenco is going to survive it needs to crossover with other genres and draw in new fans like this. La Tremendita also attracts an eclectic audience and her live shows are great.

Before the pandemic back in 2018/19, I was working with some uni students in Granada and they were all raving about Rosalia etc. But quite a few of them had been turned onto traditional flamenco because of her. There was one lad who had become a huge Camaron fan after listening to Rosalia's 'Los Angeles' and then going on his own journey of discovery.

Just look at who Rosario La Tremedita is working with on her latest album: Rafael Riqueni, Dani de Moron, Jose del Tomate, Juan Requena, Yerai Cortes, Niño Josele etc. Without projects like this, many young people will never get exposed to these guitarists.

We need new flamenco, urban flamenco, fusion flamenco, indie flamenco, dance flamenco, avant garde flamenco, experimental flamenco or whatever other labels they come up with. Not to replace flamenco puro, but because all these roads lead back to flamenco puro. These acts can play alongside traditional flamenco acts one week and then hit the rock/indie festival circuit the next. These new forms will play a big part in keeping the flamenco scene alive and acting as a gateway to more traditional forms for the younger generations.

And it should be quite possible and acceptable to enjoy both the old and new approaches without judgement. I think the sneering from certain purist quarters does nothing to help the cause in the long run. These artists won't be to everyone's taste but let's not pretend that the flamenco puro scene would be thriving without these artists putting these projects together. Or that they are somehow responsible for killing off the artform.

As Rocio Marquez said recently:

"Flamenco codes are being incorporated into urban music and that brings it closer to young people."

And:

"Flamenco is a genre that rose from a mixture and there have always been debates and discussions, because it needs the strength of roots and tradition. I like to see it as two rails, which have to go hand in hand in order to open the way. A more traditional vision and a more experimental one, which have always coexisted."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2022 16:38:35
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Neil

quote:

the sneering from certain purist quarters


you mean like this?

quote:

Piss off with the whole depressing fatalist 1970s were best fatalist BS.


_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2022 21:33:09
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Neil

quote:

young alternative/indie type


as a former "young alternative/indie type" in my late teens, with phases of being into heavy metal in my early teens and punk/post-punk in my mid teens I have never been into "pop" music. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

It has been a constant source of dismay to me since getting totally hooked on flamenco that so many flamenco artists seem to want to dabble in the most corny/cheesy/schmaltzy soft pappy pop music, but hey, it's their culture, they can do what they like with it.

But I don't have to like it.

Enrique Morente said something like "purists are nazi's" but so is anyone who tells me I have to like Rosalia. I don't have to like Beyonce either. Or Britney.

And it's nothing new. Manolo Caracol was doing his "zambra" stuff in the 1940's.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2022 21:43:52
 
kitarist

Posts: 1551
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to mark indigo

quote:


It has been a constant source of dismay to me since getting totally hooked on flamenco that so many flamenco artists seem to want to dabble in the most corny/cheesy/schmaltzy soft pappy pop music, but hey, it's their culture, they can do what they like with it.

But I don't have to like it.


Ditto.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2022 6:18:16
 
Neil

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Oct. 29 2018
 

[Deleted] 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2022 8:35:33
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