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Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

damage fret slots 

Hello,

I damaged a couple of th eslots in y ebony when hammering in the frets.

I can see a thin top layer of the ebony very slightly lifting up. (chipping (Im sure you know what i mean)

is the fret seated correctly enough to keep those top layers in place for all time? or shuld I removed the frets and try and run some glue under and clamp?

I think this is the right way to go really?
just curious as to how i can get the glueunder that little sheet of lifting ebony withour spilling into the fret slot
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 9:32:52
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1934
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

quote:

just curious as to how i can get the glueunder that little sheet of lifting ebony withour spilling into the fret slot


Find a piece of cord which you can press into the slot and remove after glueing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 11:37:34
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

Howdy Stu,

Are you bevelling the tops of the slots with a triangular file before hammering in the frets? Also, dampening the slot with a drop of water or a bit of white glue rubbed into the slot and levelled off with your finger can help prevent chipping by softening the wood fibres and also acting as a lubricant for the fret tang as it’s being hammered into the slot.

Without seeing pictures and guessing what the problem is, I think it might be best to try to reseat the chips by pushing them down flat with the edge of a metal ruler or the like and drizzling CA glue along the edge to hold them in (along with the fret) without removing the fret. There is the danger of the chips coming off and getting lost if you pull the fret to replace it. I guess the decision to pull it or not would depend on how poorly seated it is.

If you do choose to pull the fret and reseat the chips, it’s helpful to have some Teflon sheeting (or veneer wrapped in scotch tape) the same width as the slots that can be put into the slot and act as a dam against the slot getting flooded with glue during the repair. Once dammed, the loose chips can be reseated and/or any missing wood filled with ebony dust and everything held together with a thin bead of CA. Then pull out the Teflon/veneer dam, sand the board, clean out the slot, bevel its top edges, and refret.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 11:42:32
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to RobF

Thanks fur the tips. No I wasn't beveling! I have done now though.

Knew the truck but had totally forgotten.

I've kind destroyed the second fret slot! 😩

I recon I can salvage to a decent level. But annoying.
I have removed the fret and managed to glue when some of the chips but a couple of nasty ones remain. Will try again tomorrow. Might have to do super glue and ebony dust.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 23:39:43
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

thanks for your advices here.

I had some fun with glue and ebony dust and Im stunned how good it looks.

I went and did some neck carving/shaping and have returned to fret the high frets.

Cant get 15 and 16 to stay in!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2022 9:10:37
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

If they are popping back out after banging them in then the slot is now too loose. put the frets in place and use a hard block on them and clamp them in place. Perhaps use a cowel with clamp in side if its not supported beneath. Then run some super glue into the fret slot and leave it to dry. Should do the trick

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2022 18:07:53
 
JasonM

Posts: 1851
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

Glad you saved the fretboard! That is a relief. I had some bad chipping on a board I removed the frets from. Some just came right out with the heat from a soldering iron and others no so much.

I was told to add a drop of thin super glue to each side of the fret slot. So I thought what’s the harm in a couple extra? Damn glue ran all over my still curing French polish! Set me back a couple sessions after sanding it all out. Ugh.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 3:23:46
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to JasonM

great thanks Stephen. I will tackle this tonight with those tips in mind. is there a way to increase the tang width? or spread? so the hooks grab the wider ebony slot? (a way without any special tool)

Jason, is that the tip for removing frets more safely? apply heat?
cos i think i need to pull a couple.

ha sorry to hear your super glue mishap. another luthiery classic! trying to fix something but breaking something else in the process! I'm doing that regularly
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 11:05:08
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

quote:

Jason, is that the tip for removing frets more safely? apply heat?
cos i think i need to pull a couple.


Hi Stu, heat and moisture helps release the hold any glue in the slot may have on the fret. Also, brushing some water along the sides of the fret helps to reduce chipping as the damp wood will be less brittle/chippy than dry wood. It also seems to lubricate the pull somewhat. I use a soldering iron with a fairly broad tip (maybe 3mm) and heat the fret until I see the water bubble and begin to evaporate, then start pulling it. You don’t need a lot of water, just a thin brushing with a fine artist’s brush will do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 18:40:58
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 612
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

Hi Stu - I take it you have something similar to these? One old pair of pliers, one disc grinder, hey presto!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 22:12:29
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to RobF

Thanks guys and yes rob that's making sense. Will read back on that when I get round to pulling them.

Yes el burdo! I have a pair summary to that ground flat! I have a smaller pair...I think they are specific fret pullers.

Fretting is almost like a while art of its own.
Some of the tools and files and jigs and etc etc etc!! Pages and pages of them on luthier sites
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 18:05:26
 
ernandez R

Posts: 575
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: damage fret slots (in reply to Stu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Thanks guys and yes rob that's making sense. Will read back on that when I get round to pulling them.

Yes el burdo! I have a pair summary to that ground flat! I have a smaller pair...I think they are specific fret pullers.

Fretting is almost like a while art of its own.
Some of the tools and files and jigs and etc etc etc!! Pages and pages of them on luthier sites


Fret work is like shellack or the ten either critical operations that make the soul of a good guitar. Ive refret a few of my first guitars and learned a lot in the process.

I only use straight fret wire.

I like a fret slot that is not too snug, shouldn't have too pound them in.

I will use some CA as required.

I drive my frets with a nice chamfer on the edge off the slots and wet with boiled linseed oil with a flat plastic no-blow hammer.

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 21:30:05
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