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trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to ernandez R

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernandez R

About 30 years ago I was telling a guitar playing buddy how I had studied classical guitar for a few years as a young man and he invited me on a guitar shop tour in Seattle, I think we visited a hand full of shops, seemed the better guitars were about $2000 up to $4000 USD but there was this $500 dollar made in Mexico one that just blew all those others out of the water. Solid top but the inside looked like a kindergarten art project, I recall rough braces and white glue globs. We went back to a couple shops the following week ends to try a couple I liked again and again. I recall telling my buddy Little Bear, he was a dead head, that the cheap one from Mexico was it. He laid it out for me, how guitars are so much more then looks and how one guitar isn’t for everyone. Years later I figured out out a decent player can make a **** plywood guitar sound beautiful. Sadly this guitar burned up I a fire and after years of trying to find her equal I decided to build one…


HR

So was it the guitar or the player that sounded great?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 15:39:47
 
Mark2

Posts: 1734
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Ricardo





quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Vicente used Manuel Reyes (1988) from Córdoba. He sat on one on the coach and destroyed it, but owns two others. Not sure, from videos, which is which used on what recording, but those are his main guitars. Spruce and Cypress.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 17:04:15
 
Mark2

Posts: 1734
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Richard Jernigan

My first teacher, Mariano Cordoba, had a 1930 Santos. When Lester Devoe, who was his guitar student, expressed interest in building, he asked Mariano to lend him the guitar to study it and take measurements. The rest is history.....

Before he passed, Mariano gave the guitar to another student who was a great friend to him.

I don't remember if, in the five years I studied with him, I ever laid eyes on it.





quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

My best guitar allows me to play some passages that I literally can't execute on the cheaper guitars.



It must have been 1965 or '66...

My first guitar was a Paracho special I bought for 300 pesos in 1957--$24.00 at the exchange rate then. Its scale was long, it was pretty loud, its tone was a bit coarse. After a few year of work I could play on it the Mario Escudero transcriptions published at the time. They were fairly accurate. Also a couple of Niño Ricardo pieces copped off LPs, and a few other bits. Sabicas was beyond my ability to copy.

There was (may still be) a big music store on the ground floor of the old Convento de las Vizcaínas in Mexico City. In those days the main street was called the Calle del Niño Perdido. These days it's the Eje Central Lázaro Cárdenas. The convent is a couple of blocks from the Mercado de San Juan and the Salto del Agua. They had a used string instrument department that often had some interesting pieces.



In those days in Mexico City, if you could afford to dress decently you did. I wandered into the music store dressed in a sport jacket, slacks, recently shined shoes. I noticed a nice looking guitar hanging on the wall behind the counter and asked if I could try it. The attendant was a blonde, blue eyed woman, maybe 50 years old. She wore a nice cardigan over a blouse, a pleated woolen skirt and sensible shoes. She handed me the guitar.

It was a Santos Hernandez blanca from the 1930s, in perfect condition. At the time it was the best guitar I ever had in my hands, by a very wide margin.

There was a row of chairs along the wall opposite the counter. I took a seat, took out my tuning fork in its tooled leather case, and tuned up the Santos.

I played Escudero's Rondeña, pretty close to the original of his teacher Ramon Montoya. While I played two urchins came in off the street, sat down beside me and gazed admiringly. The guitar was marvelous. It played easily. It delivered nuances of tone and dynamics I had never experienced on my Paracho beast. It was simply exhilarating.

When I finished I returned the guitar to the woman behind the counter. I noticed she had tears in her eyes. She said, "Gracias, jovén. Soy de Ronda....hace muchos años."

She offered to make me a good price for the guitar, but I couldn't come anywhere near affording it.

I turned to pick up my tuning fork, but it and the two urchins had disappeared. I walked immediately to the door and looked for them on the sidewalk, but they were long gone.

Despite the loss, and the embarassment of being swindled, I was still on a high from the sensation of the guitar, and the compliment.

A great instrument can make a very big difference.

RNJ


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 17:12:47
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Vicente used Manuel Reyes (1988) from Córdoba. He sat on one on the coach and destroyed it, but owns two others. Not sure, from videos, which is which used on what recording, but those are his main guitars. Spruce and Cypress.


Did you mean coach or couch? there was a video on youtube where he is talking to, I think one of the farruco family, and he says he was playing guitar sat on the couch (AKA sofa ) when the phone rang (pre-mobile days) so he put the guitar down on the couch/sofa, got up to answer the phone, and then while chatting sat down on the guitar!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 21:18:14
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

So was it the guitar or the player that sounded great?


exactly, apply the same question to:
quote:

does anyone know what guitar vicente amigo used for ciudad de las ideas? Or even what tonewoods it had?


_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2022 21:20:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3248
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

Vicente used Manuel Reyes (1988) from Córdoba. He sat on one on the coach and destroyed it, but owns two others. Not sure, from videos, which is which used on what recording, but those are his main guitars. Spruce and Cypress.


Did you mean coach or couch? there was a video on youtube where he is talking to, I think one of the farruco family, and he says he was playing guitar sat on the couch (AKA sofa ) when the phone rang (pre-mobile days) so he put the guitar down on the couch/sofa, got up to answer the phone, and then while chatting sat down on the guitar!


My pal Pat Henry (RIP) came up with a ploy and invited me to participate. There was a neighborhood in Austin, now ritzy and expensive, that had several apartment complexes where a lot of University students lived. Even then, the apartments weren't cheap, so the students tended to be better off than Pat and I were. Friday and Saturday nights we would patrol the area, alert for signs of a party going on.

Once we had located a solid prospect, we would take our guitars in their cases and go knock on the door. When someone answered, Pat would say, with a disarming smile, "We're the guitar players."

Often enough to make the effort worthwhile we would be invited in. Pat could play and sing for hours without running out of material. I might strum along if I knew the tune. When Pat took a break I would do some flamenco, which was popular at the time. It was a good way to meet girls.

But with lots of alcohol in crowded rooms, our minds were often on the hazard described in Leo Kottke's tragic piece of a few years later:

"Tilt Billings and the Student Prince"

Leo Kottke

(accompanying himself with stunning virtuosity on 12-string)

Tilt Billings saw a guitar in a pawn shop window
Not much to look at but he knew that he'd found
That old Student Prince that they made years ago
So easy to play, what unbeatable sound
Paid twenty bucks and grabbed his guitar
Still be a steal at ten times the dough.

It was amazing how a mere beginner
Could play just a few notes and sound like a pro
He'd play his heart out when he was at parties
Guys would get jealous but girls were impressed
They'd ask how he did it? He'd say
"Nothin' to it, with this kind of guitar it brings out my best"

One night when he had the room captivated
He took five and set down his Prince
When a drunk stumbled by and sat down where he laid it
And he's never sounded quite the same since
So Tilt's still upset but he's givin' up crying
Just can't lift his eyes from the sad, sad ground

Time marches on with his fingers still trying
To find, once again, that Student Prince sound

In those days Pat's only guitar was a Harmony steel string.

Forty years later Pat and his wife lived in Juneau, Alaska. While I lived in the Central Pacific a sailboat arrived with "Juneau" below its name on the stern. I strolled down the pier and struck up a conversation with the cruising couple.

"From Juneau," I said. "Do you happen to know a fellow named Pat Henry?"

"Everybody in Juneau knows Pat Henry," was the reply.

He was one of the two or three founders of the Alaska Folk Festival. Pat was renowned for his finger picking and slyly humorous song writing throughout Alaska and the Pacific Northwest. When I went to Juneau for his funeral nearly four years ago, the proprietors of the bed and breakfast told me he was widely recognized as a poker player as well.

Once while talking to Pat and his wife on the phone, he told me about an instrument that had just arrived, custom made by an Irish luthier.

We had come to be better off then we were in our student days. I asked, "Pat, how many guitars do you have?" He didn't answer.

A few minutes later I realized he was no longer on the phone. I asked his wife, "Where's Pat?"

"He's in the other room counting guitars."

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 19 2022 7:15:14
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13523
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

Did you mean coach or couch?


Couch obviously sorry


_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 19 2022 13:56:05
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Couch obviously sorry


at first i thought maybe it was a different guitar he broke on tour or something, on the tour bus, or coach or whatever he was travelling in...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 19 2022 14:29:55
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

So ended up buying the Alhambra 8fc, though I guess it’s not nearly as popular as the 7fc as it has a 5-7 week lead time. There are literally zero reviews on it that I found, zero playing clips on YouTube. This is their concert model, the 10fc has a different bracing pattern closer to a classical guitar and it was more money so I bought the 8fc. Its supposed to be a better quality version with better woods than the 7FC.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 21 2022 16:35:51
 
ernandez R

Posts: 575
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

ORIGINAL: ç

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernandez R

About 30 years ago I was telling a guitar playing buddy how I had studied classical guitar for a few years as a young man and he invited me on a guitar shop tour in Seattle, I think we visited a hand full of shops, seemed the better guitars were about $2000 up to $4000 USD but there was this $500 dollar made in Mexico one that just blew all those others out of the water. Solid top but the inside looked like a kindergarten art project, I recall rough braces and white glue globs. We went back to a couple shops the following week ends to try a couple I liked again and again. I recall telling my buddy Little Bear, he was a dead head, that the cheap one from Mexico was it. He laid it out for me, how guitars are so much more then looks and how one guitar isn’t for everyone. Years later I figured out out a decent player can make a **** plywood guitar sound beautiful. Sadly this guitar burned up I a fire and after years of trying to find her equal I decided to build one…


HR

So was it the guitar or the player that sounded great?


Ha, the guitar for sure. I love playing but ill never amount to much, I'm cool with that though.

Glad to hear you are moving forward. Hopefully your mew axe will inspire you.

As a young man I put my guitar away once my daughter was born. Biggest mistake of my life. Taught my little girl skills for sure, surf and skate, man bike and many others but never taught her to play....

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 21 2022 20:24:15
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to ernandez R

Yes well it’s a bit of a gamble. It seems the 8fc is not nearly as popular as the 7fc, therefore I have not found any reviews or YouTube demos. Looks like they have to build it as they out Of stock with a 5-7 week lead time. I’m hoping the build team is more inspired to build the less popular model with more enthusiasm, anyways that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2022 2:26:13
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

I’m hoping the build team is more inspired to build the less popular model with more enthusiasm, anyways that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.


So you decided to ignore the good advice here and went with the Alhambra marketing plus your own fantasy story instead?

Hope you are happy with your guitar. Out of curiosity I recently played that model and personally I didn't like it any better than the cheaper Alhambra models. In my experience Bernal and Hermanos Sanchis are the only factory guitars that are worth buying. They have a genuine flamenco sound and good playability, that's why you can occasionally see professionals playing them. For a low budget better off sticking with Yamaha CG182SF.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2022 9:38:10
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to orsonw

quote:

In my experience Bernal and Hermanos Sanchis are the only factory guitars that are worth buying. They have a genuine flamenco sound and good playability, that's why you can occasionally see professionals playing them. For a low budget better off sticking with Yamaha CG182SF.


My experience too, couldn't agree more... except I have to put in a plug for Stephen Eden's "Soleá" model flamenco (equivalent to his classical "Cadenza" model), which is the same woods and build as his concert flamenco, but without the decoration, and for the price of a student guitar.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2022 13:30:49
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to orsonw

I was being facetious with my fantasy story, also I didn’t ignore the advice, I took everything into consideration. I feel the need to justify the purchase as to not make everyone feel their contribution to this post was not valued because thats far from the truth.

I just feel at this point on my life im not willing to drop that amount of money on a guitar for the ones that were recommended. I paid $1400 Canadian for it (pending GST & customs) the same guitar is sold for $2500 here in Canada so I feel like I got a great deal. People with skillsets better than my own seem to love the 7fc and the 8fc is a step up. Is it the best guitar ever? Absolutely not, will it be my last guitar purchase in my life? again absolutely not. Though, considering the price I couldn’t go wrong and i dont want to spend 2.5 times more on 15% more sound quality right now. Moreover, based on the advice I heard here I was told unless I’m willing to shell out $3000 USD ($4000 CAD or two months mortgage payments) not to bother upgrading from my Paco f7. I realized that im really not looking to spend the money on an upgrade, I just really want a half decent quality Blanca with solid sides. The Yamaha does not have solid sides and is about as inspiring as a mini van is to a muscle car builder. I’m surprised to even hear the cheap yamaha brought up again after the inspiring posts in this thread which one could extrapolate how a guitar subjectively feels as the motivation to help a player improve. I dont know about you but im much more excited about a guitar made in Spain over China that also manufactures boat engines.


Furthermore, I needed a backup guitar/travel guitar for RV camping and flying as the converted classical I now use is not cutting it, I intend to use the Paco f7 for this with its stable laminate sides and built in truss rods.

Both Hermanos Sanchis and Bernal guitars are very difficult to get in Canada, not impossible...just difficult and expensive. Even the Hermanos Sanchis 1F cost about $4000 Canadian, not to mention the customs and duties on that. I can also purchase a luthier made flamenco guitar in Canada for that money, or a running vehicle. Everything said im after the best value, not the best guitar. I had some boxes I wanted ticked, solid top and sides were one of the main ones plus I really want something that is made outside china as doing so means I indirectly support the Chinese government.

Moreover, If I lived near some decent guitar shops I would test them, but I don't so this is my reality for now. I hope you can understand as I definitely did NOT ignore that advice given here.

Not to beat a dead horse but Ricardo basically said he uses the Cordoba GK and said It was fairly decent for what it is. Well I don't need the pickups and I don't like the cutouts so that brings me to the overpriced F10 at $1900 CDN. The Alhambra 8FC is better value with the EURO on par in my mind which is why I bought it. What i do not understand is how I ignored the advice. By the way and contrary to what you said, Alhambra does a terrible job marketing their products, at least compared to Cordoba and their celebrity endorsements and reviews. Marketing is not at all what won me over, but just know there is a reason why they are one of the largest guitar manufacturers in Spain…they must be doing something right and it is definately not clever marketing. That title would definitely go to Cordoba as they feed off the limbic system in the brain to unsuspecting guitar players.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2022 15:23:27
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

I guess not much love for Alhambra but what about Camps? Anyone try the primera Non A? The search function shows that everyone likes the negra but didn’t find much on the Blanca.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 0:21:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13523
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

Alhambra is the big factory in Valencia. They made the good cordobas like the FWCE etc back in the day before china took over. After the Yamaha disappeared Cordoba had the low end flamenco market all to themselves. At namm, they had a display case (2014) with special high end replicas. Mr. K. Hill, who had his own Reyes copy at his booth, admitted he built those Cordoba replicas, and they ruined them with the thick glossy finish. . It is all about marketing and endorsements.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 8:06:52
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Ricardo

I ended up canceling the order and purchasing a camps Primera Blanca (non a). It was over my budget for sure and hard to convince the wife but I feel more confident I will be happy with the purchase. At the end of the day it will a LONG time before I buy another guitar so whatever choice I make I have to live with for years. While not a ton of info on camps, Kai Narezo was absolutely gushing over both the negra and Blanca Primeras and the Primera a. He said they play like a guitar twice the price, so hopefully this is the case.

https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/review-camps-flamenco-primera-series

My only concern is the lack of an adjustable truss rod. I use case humidifiers, In fact im building a guitar humidified cabinet with a glass front and plan to hang the guitars from the headstock...so I guess thats all one can do really. That aside if the neck does warp, what can one do?

At any rate I appreciate everyones insight to help with the decision as it was not an easy one.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 14:05:46
 
tri7/5

 

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

ORIGINAL: trivium91

My only concern is the lack of an adjustable truss rod.


Flamenco and classical guitars 99% of the time do not have a truss rod. The reason lower end models do is just to account for them to not have to worry about using appropriate seasoned wood. Some luthiers use a carbon fiber insert if making a neck really thin.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 16:27:08
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to tri7/5

quote:

ORIGINAL: tri7/5

quote:

ORIGINAL: trivium91

My only concern is the lack of an adjustable truss rod.


Flamenco and classical guitars 99% of the time do not have a truss rod. The reason lower end models do is just to account for them to not have to worry about using appropriate seasoned wood. Some luthiers use a carbon fiber insert if making a neck really thin.


Makes sense, so the Primera has a carbon rod (im assuming carbon fibre) in the neck but its not adjustable. Their cheaper models all have truss rods but the use of seasoned wood makes perfect sense.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 16:46:53
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Alhambra is the big factory in Valencia. They made the good cordobas like the FWCE etc back in the day before china took over. After the Yamaha disappeared Cordoba had the low end flamenco market all to themselves. At namm, they had a display case (2014) with special high end replicas. Mr. K. Hill, who had his own Reyes copy at his booth, admitted he built those Cordoba replicas, and they ruined them with the thick glossy finish. . It is all about marketing and endorsements.


What Guitar are you playing here?



It sounds awesome, very resonate and open.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2022 23:21:31
 
Mitch

Posts: 48
Joined: Nov. 24 2005
From: AZ

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

I have a friend with a Camps Primera Blanca. It's a very good guitar. If they are consistent (and I have no reason to believe they aren't), you should be very happy with it.

I wish you luck with it, and for you to enjoy the music.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 1:26:27
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Mitch

Apparently they are certified by Manuel Granados, though it appears to be a pretty informal process.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 3:56:46
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13523
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

ORIGINAL: trivium91

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Alhambra is the big factory in Valencia. They made the good cordobas like the FWCE etc back in the day before china took over. After the Yamaha disappeared Cordoba had the low end flamenco market all to themselves. At namm, they had a display case (2014) with special high end replicas. Mr. K. Hill, who had his own Reyes copy at his booth, admitted he built those Cordoba replicas, and they ruined them with the thick glossy finish. . It is all about marketing and endorsements.


What Guitar are you playing here?



It sounds awesome, very resonate and open.



That is the Amazing Alhambra 8fc, the truss rod is SWEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 5:16:21
 
orsonw

Posts: 1632
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

In the rondeña video Ricardo is playing a Purnell guitar made by UK luthier Jake Fuller.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 9:18:43
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to orsonw

Beautiful guitar for sure, it sounds great. Just out of curiosity though, how do you guys convince your spouse to agree to purchase a guitar that costs as much as a running vehicle? I can’t speak for everyone here but All these models seem like a luxury, that are all wants rather than needs. My wife is Latina with humble roots, and even telling her about the guitar I bought for $2000 cad was not exactly easy. I mean God provides for us, we have more than enough, I can easily afford a BMW but just because I can doesn’t mean I should. My hope is to one day get off this hamster wheel that is society, we also sponser several children to try and make a difference. Trust me guys, i would love to own a guitar like that one day but thought of spending that makes me sick to me stomache. I would sooner put the money to put my daughter through school so she doesn’t have to work as hard as I do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 13:50:54
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

Beautiful guitar for sure, it sounds great. Just out of curiosity though, how do you guys convince your spouse to agree to purchase a guitar that costs as much as a running vehicle? I can’t speak for everyone here but All these models seem like a luxury, that are all wants rather than needs. My wife is Latina with humble roots, and even telling her about the guitar I bought for $2000 cad was not exactly easy. I mean God provides for us, we have more than enough, I can easily afford a BMW but just because I can doesn’t mean I should. My hope is to one day get off this hamster wheel that is society, we also sponser (sic) several children to try and make a difference. Trust me guys, i would love to own a guitar like that one day but thought of spending that makes me sick to me stomache. I would sooner put the money to put my daughter through school so she doesn’t have to work as hard as I do.


I have withheld comment in this thread up to now, but your latest post calls for a response. When you suggest that "all these models seem like a luxury that are all wants rather than needs," it seems to me you are projecting your own views onto others on the Foro who have tried to be helpful.

Likewise, when you state that you "sponsor several children to try and make a difference," and that you would "sooner put the money to put my daughter through school so she doesn't have to work as hard as I do," that is commendable, but again, it sounds a bit condescending, as if you exist on a higher moral plane than others. I doubt that you know what good works and charitable activity other Foro members are engaged in.

The members who have responded to your posts have a great deal of knowledge about what guitars they like. It is not a matter of "wants" over "needs." Rather, it is a matter of what each member considers the best guitar for him given his ability and goals. And it may surprise you to learn what other Foro members do to make the world a better place outside of the world of guitars. Perhaps a little more humility and a little less implied moral superiority would be in order.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 14:36:55
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

I have withheld comment in this thread up to now, but your latest post calls for a response. When you suggest that "all these models seem like a luxury that are all wants rather than needs," it seems to me you are projecting your own views onto others on the Foro who have tried to be helpful.

Likewise, when you state that you "sponsor several children to try and make a difference," and that you would "sooner put the money to put my daughter through school so she doesn't have to work as hard as I do," that is commendable, but again, it sounds a bit condescending, as if you exist on a higher moral plane than others. I doubt that you know what good works and charitable activity other Foro members are engaged in.

The members who have responded to your posts have a great deal of knowledge about what guitars they like. It is not a matter of "wants" over "needs." Rather, it is a matter of what each member considers the best guitar for him given his ability and goals. And it may surprise you to learn what other Foro members do to make the world a better place outside of the world of guitars. Perhaps a little more humility and a little less implied moral superiority would be in order.

Bill



I just applied what you said to my post, i can understand how it can be misconstrued as such. You're just going to have to trust me though when I say that I'm not trying to be condescending or guilt trip anyone who spends money on higher end guitars. I apologize if that's the way it came across. If you knew me in person you would know this to be true as that's not the person I am. Im not a judgemental person, especially when I don't know someones full story...in fact I'm often seen as being too understanding as I give people the benefit of the doubt almost all the time. I even try to help the homeless out of empathy, again I'm not trying to project anything or act morally superior by saying this, but rather trying to back my statement that I'm not judgemental and I give people the benefit of the doubt.

What is really happening here is that Im trying to justify it to myself as to why I shouldn't buy one for myself, even if I want too. Unfortunately I feel the need to justify this to others as I feel I'm being judged and even a little chastised and mocked for cheaping out on a guitar. Feeling backed into a corner and in so doing, be it my poor choice of words or other, I see that I've offended you. For that I apologize as that was not at all what I intended. I really do appreciate the good insight from this thread and its contributors because who knows, maybe my opinion for myself spending this much on a guitar will change in time. Proof that this insight in this thread was helpful is evident when I stretched the budget for the Camps Primera, which will hopefully leave me happier with my purchase in the long run.


Though I'm still curious on how everyone convinces their spouse on the guitar purchases. Believe me I'm looking for tips because spending $2000 a guitar was a big deal already and I'm going to be in the dog house when I get hit with Customs. This seems to be the biggest issue with spending Money on a guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 15:16:09
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

Is this the second thread you started about buying a guitar? IIRC there was another thread where you requested information only to decide on a Camps guitar - even though no one mentioned that maker. If I wanted a guitar to take on vacation, keep in a car, take to the beach, etc., I would buy a Yamaha CG172SF and upgrade the saddle to Tusq. GC has one for under $300. Here’s a link:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Yamaha/CG172SF-Classical-Acoustic-Guitar-118235138.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI45e-9qLi-QIVBsmUCR22mglEEAQYBSABEgKgh_D_BwE

Shortly after I joined the Foro a peg head Castillo blanca sold for under $700 on eBay. I didn’t know much about Flamenco guitars at the time and one of the of the peg holes had an issue so I passed. I’ve seen other guitars sell at low prices over the years including a Devoe classical that had a top with worn French polish. This was listed for under $1,000 and was being sold by the owner’s widow.

In both threads everyone warned you not to fall into the mid-price tier guitar trap and that’s exactly what you did!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 16:32:04
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

Is this the second thread you started about buying a guitar? IIRC there was another thread where you requested information only to decide on a Camps guitar - even though no one mentioned that maker. If I wanted a guitar to take on vacation, keep in a car, take to the beach, etc., I would buy a Yamaha CG172SF and upgrade the saddle to Tusq. GC has one for under $300. Here’s a link:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Yamaha/CG172SF-Classical-Acoustic-Guitar-118235138.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI45e-9qLi-QIVBsmUCR22mglEEAQYBSABEgKgh_D_BwE

Shortly after I joined the Foro a peg head Castillo blanca sold for under $700 on eBay. I didn’t know much about Flamenco guitars at the time and one of the of the peg holes had an issue so I passed. I’ve seen other guitars sell at low prices over the years including a Devoe classical that had a top with worn French polish. This was listed for under $1,000 and was being sold by the owner’s widow.

In both threads everyone warned you not to fall into the mid-price tier guitar trap and that’s exactly what you did!


Well the first thread was cedar vs spruce, my plan for a guitar was longer term so I wasn't buying anything at that point. This thread was me digging deeper into actually making the purchase as I feel with the state of world events I may not get another opportunity for a long time. Moreover the Euro is really low right now, who knows if that will change or not.

I will say this again though, regardless of my purchase choice the advice and knowledge has better educated me (and possible to others) so to anyone that feels their time was wasted, I can tell you it was not, instead it was very much appreciated. Do not take it personal if I did not follow your advice to a T.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 16:45:45
 
tri7/5

 

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

With all your worry about what other players guitars cost, how to convince your wife of financial purchases, and all your airing of comments/replies that are in no way beneficial you could have been playing guitar and finding out your own path. Your concerns and worries are heavily misplaced. Do you actually want to play flamenco guitar or not?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 17:11:04
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