getting in and out of picado

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norumba

Posts: 30
Joined: May 20 2015

getting in and out of picado

good evening good peeps!

i m back , lol, once again returning to flamenco, for like, what.. . the third time?

i"ll save my back story for later, but I had a technique question I'd like to ask and get perspective on.

Ive always had a decent thumb and arpegio technique, my Achilles heel being picado. While I have decent speed with a pick or risha on electric guitar or oud, but right hand picado has always been my weakest flamenco technique. This go round I've resolved to work on that.

I've devoured lots of youtube videos to help with right hand and finger movement efficiency and position, and I'm getting to where my picado can be decent in isolation , but it fails when I'm moving to it from any other technique - pulgar, alzapua, arpegio, rasgueado -- into a picado phrase. i simply cant get the hand relaxed and placed quickly enough.

any thoughts or perspective on ' setting up" the hand and prep for picado out of other techniques and positions?

thx!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2022 3:11:24

devilhand

Posts: 1510
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

It depends whether you play picado with bent or straight middle joint. Everything is mentioned here.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=297880&p=18&tmode=1&smode=1

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=125164&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=flat%2Cpicado&tmode=&smode=&s=#125164

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2022 21:58:12

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

Take a lesson with Grisha Goryachev. He’s a member of this Foro.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2022 23:27:47

norumba

Posts: 30
Joined: May 20 2015

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

than k you gents, very much!

both threads are quite helpful. im still experimenting with both positions and havent really come to a conclusion yet as what works best for me. Bent wrist /flat fingers seems more relaxed and i carry less tension this way, but flat wrist/ bent fingers seems to have more efficiency and economy of movement.

Ill keep experimentng , and ill reach out to Grisha!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2022 6:13:07

thomazozo

Posts: 3
Joined: Apr. 15 2021

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

A tip that has really helped me transitioning from arpegio to picado:

1. Practice both free stroke and picado.
2. Learn a phrase that transitions from arpegio to picado with free stroke first, then adapt picado.

I found I had this same problem. But the minute I learned the same phrase or falsetta with free strokes and brought it up to speed, adapting the free stroke to picado was much much easier. I think I personally over exaggerate the transition from arpegio to picado and this type of exercise has really helped make the transition much more fluid. Not to mention I have developed free stroke alongside picado which can add a new dynamic to my playing.

For the record I picked this tip up from Artafana's news letter/email signup. I unintentionally signed up but I can't tell you how many of these email stories/tips get sent to my inbox and I read. I really enjoy the solicitation hahah! He outlined this same problem, as he too encountered it when learning, and basically said, learning free stroke is just as important and helps build the transitions. (I am paraphrasing)...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2022 0:14:25

Fluknu

Posts: 151
Joined: Jan. 11 2021

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

I also noticed that the transitions from one technique to the other can be tricky, and not only to picado, but to alzapua for example.

What I do is break the transition into little chunks: The last bit of the arpeggio for example, and the beginning of the picado. It kinds of become a unit- quite small. So then I practice this small unit of transition. This helps...but of course there's no magic and repetition and attention to the change of technique must be there.

Fluknu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2022 14:28:17

silddx

Posts: 525
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to Fluknu)

Flunknu, I agree with this.

I posted this in the resources area, it is so useful.

How to Learn Skills Faster | Huberman Lab Podcast #20
https://youtu.be/xJ0IBzCjEPk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2022 21:57:43

norumba

Posts: 30
Joined: May 20 2015

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to silddx)

Thanks folks, this is all good stuff.

i do break down problem areas in small chucks and thats always helpful...

i hadnt thought about practicing picado as free stokes from arpegio, that s a good idea and ill give it a shot!

listening to the podcast... interesting material for sure. Makes a lot of sense!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2022 4:39:20

silddx

Posts: 525
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

I was especially interested in the importance of making errors, that they promote neural plasticity, as long as you correct the errors afterwards. And taking a short time for silent contemplation after completing an exercise to embed it.

The importance of chunking and working on the micro elements of everything involved in a passage or physical movement is helping me, especially as I'm a beginner at Flamenco. Having to unlearn a fair bit of 40 years of playing electric guitar and bass!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2022 11:50:48

devilhand

Posts: 1510
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

Talking about picado in general, to me picado is the most difficult flamenco guitar technique. String crossing, right hand speed and synchronizing it with the left hand. Look at 8:20-12:10. Mute the sound of the video, watch and analyze it at a normal speed or at a slower 0.5 or 0.25 speed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2022 22:59:14

Ricardo

Posts: 14391
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

quote:

hadnt thought about practicing picado as free stokes from arpegio, that s a good idea and ill give it a shot!

Guajiras de Lucia is basically one stop shopping piece of music that works this concept. You might think it an advanced piece, and it is, however, the fundamental exercises it teaches you will benefit all areas of your playing. I break down some tricky spots (20:40 is an important fast picado change of posture, also 25:00-28 min) and offer my personal work arounds while showing what Paco does as well.

And an older performance:

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2022 14:55:42

norumba

Posts: 30
Joined: May 20 2015

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to Ricardo)

hi Ricardo, thanks for sharing those...those do present some tricky spots to work on, - great things to extract and work on as isolated exercises. the vid really shows the hand movement invlvoled and how fast you have to shift position. very illuminating, gracias!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2022 14:35:29

devilhand

Posts: 1510
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I break down some tricky spots (20:40 is an important fast picado change of posture, also 25:00-28 min) and offer my personal work arounds while showing what Paco does as well.

Luis Calderito doesn't change his hand posture at 0:28-0:48. There are lots of arpegio and picado going on. I wonder how Paco would play this part.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 19:42:37

trivium91

Posts: 185
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: getting in and out of picado (in reply to norumba)

while I'm fairly new to Flamenco and I struggle with picado aswell so take this with a grain of salt. That said, most of my struggle can be pinpointed to nail length and what not. I found that keeping the index and middle finger closer to together and not creating a full travel helps with speed, also when done filing the finger nails make sure to file at a severe angle downwards (under the nail) to take that bottom edge off a bit. My index finger also has a bit of a curve so I file it angled towards the strings to begin with otherwise it catches on the strings. Nails can't be too long or short either, its actually a pain in the rear with all these details on the nails. Point is that there are a lot of variables I find that have to come together for picado and sometimes I just don't get it right and my picado sucks for that practice session until I fix my nails. Not sure this would apply to you though or not since you said you have a decent picado already. Im pretty good at picador transition but struggle to be consistent in full scale picados, sounds like the opposite to you.

One more thing is I find the rotor cuff and shoulder can be pretty sore sometimes from playing than when one transitions into picado, focus is lost on playing and instead on the sore right shoulder. As dumb is this sounds I feel power yoga or vinyasa yoga can really help with the pain and focus elements of guitar, and also to strengthen the fast twitch muscle fibres and increase joint mobility.

Just trying to think outside the box for the underlying cause...Have you looked into any of these variables for yourself?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2022 19:15:05