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Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to henrym3483)
Thanks! It was all pretty good until the disaster at 38 minutes. Auto tuned Granaina was the worst thing I ever heard….I thought…until the guy started singing!! . He could have used EXTRA auto tune.
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
disaster at 38 minutes
Ugh.. couldn't watch more than 30 seconds of that bit. Meretricious crap masquerading as art. I guess this is a logical development given the 'cool visuals are more important than substance' trend in [pop] music everywhere.
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to henrym3483)
I've been trying to enjoy it for what it is, despite not being a fan of each and every performance. It seems like the series has set out to ask what people are doing with flamenco right now and show a mixture of the traditional and the newfangled (which doesn't always come off, I agree), and in that sense it is following through with its mission. I find myself skipping over a lot of that 'experimental' and 'vibe-y' stuff unless it seems really original and interesting right off the bat. There was one ultra-modern rendition of a serneta letra por soleá that definitely rubbed me the wrong way, but I can't remember which episode it was in -- maybe the Barcelona one?
The thing that has really bothered me about the series is the interviews. They've carved out really boring and predictable roles for both Miguel Poveda and Soleá Morente in terms of the questions they ask and the kinds of things they bring to the table, and it starts to feel formulaic and uninteresting after a while as a result.
Posts: 3470
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to mecmachin)
quote:
I sense some sufrimemiento muy autentico.
With good reason. Most of this stuff is crap that, I suppose, is attempting to be "relevant" to a "modern" audience. There was a recent article in the Washington Post about Shakespeare theatre companies attempting to be "relevant" as well, even to the point of changing the language to incorporate "rap," as if the original Shakespeare plays are not timeless as they are. I guess we can expect Macbeth with a baseball cap on backwards and the three witches as "ho's."
I recall several years ago here on the Foro someone posted an atrocious video of what was billed as a "fusion" of hip hop/rap and flamenco. It was abominable and demonstrated the absurd lengths some will go to in order to attain their definition of "relevance."
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to henrym3483)
Some of the series has been nice so far, other parts, im like not my taste.
some of its feels a bit Raül Refree. El Guincho, Nino De Elche type stuff. where you have a Solea letra sang to the compas of verdiales...electronic stuff thrown in...it just feels messy.
lots of the Jerez artists unhappy no one from la Plazuela was on the show, and likewise, no one mentioned Manuel Torre... i mean a show on Jerez Flamenco and NOT A WORD ABOUT MANUEL TORRE??? Go Figure.
in the jerez show I enjoyed the bits with maria terremoto, jesus mendez, el zambo, el grilo, macanita..Lela and Vicente Soto... but you'd need a whole series dedicated to Jerez to cover all the cante families. A Rito y Geografia for 2022 is needed.
Posts: 3470
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to chester)
quote:
I guess your idea of "modern" is the 90s?... Pretty presumptuous of you to assume someone else's intent.
My definition of "modern" in terms of pop/street culture includes the '90s and beyond. Still applies. And regarding presumptuousness in assuming someone else's intent, it is my prerogative to determine intent as I see it, just as it is your prerogative to assume I am wrong and criticize my viewpoint. It's called free speech, even though we may disagree.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to mecmachin)
quote:
I sense some sufrimemiento muy autentico.
Do you really want subtitles???
Mecmachin
Ah just for the people who love flamenco, without the time to pick up the language. I started learning spanish at 22, at 36 i feel comfortable watching spanish tv shows, though some words/slang i've never come across throw me, also some of the regional accents throw me.
last comedy tv series i watched Grasa, with Kike Perez, was a delight, because i could follow it all with the local slang included. Love watching Commandante Lara, aka Luis Lara Carpio. another great comedian from Jerez. You may know him from the Curos d'andalu series. he's a terrific singer and saetero aswell.
Maybe watch some comedy and jokes rather than this series
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
Pretty presumptuous of you to assume someone else's intent.
Um, scratching head…if the results aren’t clearly showing the artistic intent, then, WTF is the point of art at all?
And why is backward hat and “hos” only mean 90s???
not sure i'm following re "results aren't clearly showing the intent" but if someone mixes flamenco with rap i don't see how it's necessarily "trying to stay relevant". maybe they just like flamenco and rap?
art, as part of culture, is always evolving, and every generation puts their own spin on things. until they get bored, and it dies.
Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to chester)
quote:
not sure i'm following re "results aren't clearly showing the intent" but if someone mixes flamenco with rap i don't see how it's necessarily "trying to stay relevant".
Ok.
Flamenco=old Rap= new Old=from a time past, not relevant to today new= modern, relevant and familiar in todays world and current events…for example “snoopy dog Dre dr and the chronic”
Flamenco rap=an attempt by someone to make an old music relevant by 90’s standards.
Autotune= An attempt to disguise the lack of ability to sing in freakin tune which does in fact the opposite from the point of view of people that actually know how to use the flaps on the sides of their heads called ears. (Just thought I would add that in for un related clarity).
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
With good reason. Most of this stuff is crap that, I suppose, is attempting to be "relevant" to a "modern" audience. There was a recent article in the Washington Post about Shakespeare theatre companies attempting to be "relevant" as well, even to the point of changing the language to incorporate "rap," as if the original Shakespeare plays are not timeless as they are. I guess we can expect Macbeth with a baseball cap on backwards and the three witches as "ho's."
Attempting to be relevant? Never thought about it in that way before. I think you should liberate your mind from black & white thinking.
Oh yeah, never tired of listening to this song - Romeo & Juliet by Poetry'n'Motion.
Posts: 3455
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to henrym3483)
There are Spanish subtitles. Click on the little icon at the lower right corner of the video frame.
Having learned Spanish from "educated" south Texans and Mexicans, I sometimes have trouble with the andalú of my generation. Morente and Poveda, one generation younger, speak fairly standard castellano, comfortable for me.
I've only watched the first few minutes of the video. This thread seems mildly ironic to me: members of a foro predominantly attuned the the avant garde of flamenco guitar dissing the "modernization" of cante.
I like Manuel Torre, Antonio Chacon, La Niña de los Peines, her brother Tomas Pavón, Agujetas father and son, Terremoto padre (haven't listened to hijo), Manolo Caracol, Mairena....the good ones all way up to Camarón. I liked Rocio Márquez's early Youtube video, accompanied on guitar by her teacher, but it was just a note-by-note copy of Chacon. I have read complaints about Márquez's "modern" or "pop" stuff, but I haven't heard it, so I can't judge. Nor can I say anything about the video, since I haven't watched more than a few minutes.
Rosalía isn't even flamenco-adjacent these days. She is to be judged by different criteria, ones I don't possess, since I never got into MTV and stopped listening to the radio when I moved to the Marshall Islands in 1991. Never got back into pop.
I know that Paco said, "I am flamenco, so what I play is flamenco." If you're familiar with Niño Ricardo, you can still hear echoes, very much transformed in harmony and rhythm, even in Paco's latest albums.
In the early '60s I met Spaniards at the club Zambra in New York City who thought Sabicas was way too modern. Meanwhile Sabicas was churning out LP's, giving lots of solo concerts, occasionally working with cuadros, including Carmen Amaya's, and coining money. When Sabicas would turn up for an after-hours juerga at Zambra, a handful of hard-line old-school aficionados would leave.
When I was still in high school 1951-55 I read Downbeat magazine. It was the heyday of bebop, with a dash of "West Coast". The critics were divided into warring camps of "traditional" and "modern." West Coast was assigned to the modern camp.
There was a regular column interviewing Louis Armstrong on the latest jazz records. Occasionally he would criticize a musician's technique. He would offer off the cuff analyses of composition and improvisation, but I don't remember any complaints from Louis about "modernization," which was rampant.
No criticism of posters in this thread is intended nor implied. I would probably dislike some of the "modern" stuff if I listened to it. Poor technique promoted as the latest and greatest always deserves to receive some stick.
RE: New flamenco series 'Caminos Fla... (in reply to mrstwinkle)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrstwinkle
People wearing masks in it. I stopped watching. Vile.
It was funny to see Raimundo Amador playing with a mask, I'm glad the mask wearing has been declining recently, however you're missing out on a great modern documentary, even if it has few not very flamenco performances. I enjoyed it truly and appreciate the notable effort and funds they put into creating it. Some legends were also in it.
Printable Version
. He could have used EXTRA auto tune. 
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