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GK Negra Bridge Sinking   You are logged in as Guest
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Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

GK Negra Bridge Sinking 

I don't know where to start....LOL

But, I do want to say since owning this guitar for about a year and without sounding arrogant, I have made a lot of progress in my playing? This guitar is super easy to play.

I was going to post a A-minor Buleria that I learned from our beloved El Rumbero....But, this is what has happened:

I live in Arizona (temps are usually 110 in the summer time) when I purchased the guitar I was diligent about using planet waves humidifier pack. I would rotate them, but, the sucky part is they would only last a week until they dried out. It became a chore just to recharge them and rotate them.

So, I decided to do my own humidifying which included drilling holes into a traveling soap dish and then putting a wet squeezed sponge. This was more ideal for me.

Okay, so here is the problem after I put the my hamade humidifier in the case....The next day when I went to play, I got some gnarly buzzing..

I thought maybe I had "wet guitar" syndrome, but, I also have to admit, that, since having the guitar, and before using my handmade humidifier, I noticed within in 2 months that the action was dropping all by itself.

Yesterday, I headed down to a place locally owned called Central Music to buy a pack of medium tension strings, as I thought maybe it would help. Before I was ready to pay, I asked the owner if he would look at my guitar...

He said the neck looked straight, but, the problem (and what I have suspected all along) that the bridge is sinking...

I remember not too long ago a former foro flamenco poster owned the same model and the same problem had happened to him. As I recall, he did not even think it was worth fixing the guitar.

Guys, my action is so low the GK Negra is starting to sound like a banjo, LOL I tried medium tension, it too started to drop low even after two days. I took them off because I read the a heavier strings will cause even more of sinking.

Today, i will take my guitar in to my guitar tech guy to see if I can fix it, and how much it will cost.

I am just wondering if it is even worth fixing. I am scared the repair will be a lot. I could put a taller bone in the saddle, but, if the bridge is sinking it will just lower the strings again.

Any advise you all can give is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2021 16:08:54
 
RobF

Posts: 1116
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

Hi Kalo,
I suspect a new saddle will get you to where you need to be, but it’s a really good idea to have the guitar physically checked out. Just in case it’s something more wrong than just humidity, like a loose brace or bridge lift (from coming unglued at the back). And even if it is something like that it’s no big deal and can be fixed. So, I wouldn’t stress too much about it and your idea to bring it in to be looked over is the right step to take.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2021 18:26:32
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

Hi Kalo,
I suspect a new saddle will get you to where you need to be, but it’s a really good idea to have the guitar physically checked out. Just in case it’s something more wrong than just humidity, like a loose brace or bridge lift (from coming unglued at the back). And even if it is something like that it’s no big deal and can be fixed. So, I wouldn’t stress too much about it and your idea to bring it in to be looked over is the right step to take.


Thanks Rob, I hope it won't cost too much! I just remember someone posting a while ago that fixing their sinking bridge on their GK was not worth it. I was wondering about it thinking it must cost more than the guitar is worth. So, it is good to know it might not cost a lot to fix.

I will get a few price quotes and go from there...

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2021 18:46:11
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

Update: So the bridge indeed sunk! The top of the guitar is dipping if that makes sense...

I am told the repair might cost in the $200.00 range and to be honest for this type of guitar and if I resale it, I will loose money...

Do, I just try to hydrate the guitar more? I was told that the D Addario Humidifier packs I was using do not work good in Arizona...

The tech saw my home made humidifier traveling soap dish with holes and sponge and said they looked awesome....

I just do not know why this all happened when using it....Oh well....

Still contemplating whether to fix it or not....

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 2:11:05
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 184
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

can you post some pictures?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 14:38:08
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

can you post some pictures?


I do not have any pictures the guitar is with the tech.

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 14:58:31
 
JasonM

Posts: 1695
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

Did the tech say what the fix would be? Like a broken fan brace? Maybe it’s something you could take a stab at yourself if the alternative is to send it to the fireplace.

I think it’s worth getting it fixed for 200. Besides, I played a newer gk studio and it seemed like the bridge was even higher than the old ones
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 16:01:05
 
rombsix

Posts: 7575
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to JasonM



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 16:27:12
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

Did the tech say what the fix would be? Like a broken fan brace? Maybe it’s something you could take a stab at yourself if the alternative is to send it to the fireplace.

I think it’s worth getting it fixed for 200. Besides, I played a newer gk studio and it seemed like the bridge was even higher than the old ones


Hey JasonM,

He is going to call me with what he finds and how much it will cost. The sucky part to all of this, is he was trying to tell me that he was going to level the frets out. WTF, I asked why? I told him the guitar didn't need fret leveling...

He did say that a brace could of come loose...Also, the input jack has become loose for no apparent reason?

At first, the tech tried to tell me to take home the guitar and re humidify it and I asked (knowing the question) Is that going to fix the loose input jack? WTF....

My dilemma if I fix the guitar will it have further problems and I keep sinking more money....

I seriously, don't know where I went wrong...This experience has kind of shaken my confidence...Seriously, I rotated and used the D Addario humidifying pack...But the guitar action still felt like it was dropping...

I am just curious, where it was shipped came from a state that is not CRANKING 110 with no humidity like Arizona..

What I can't understand is why when I used my sponge humidifier did it make the guitar action drop more and buzz....

This going to sound horrible, but, being that I have played electric guitar, and I am never going to go PRO EVER...LOL

Ben Woods Nylocaster is starting sound pretty nice to me...LOL The reason why I hesitate, is the saddle spacing for right hand is 52.2 and damn that seems very tight to play arpeggios and picados...

Ben states that you just have to get used to it....But, before I purchased the Cordoba, I was playing flamenco on my Godin electric and my hand felt cramped...

Maybe it is different with nylon strings....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 16:34:46
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

Ugh, El Rumbero....

I feel horrible.....I am hoping for the best...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 16:37:18
 
RobF

Posts: 1116
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

Hi Kalo, I don’t know if your location allows this, but I think if you’re able to get a couple more estimates that’s a good way to proceed. Ask each person to itemize or explain what they intend to do, then you can have an idea of why there might be differences in the costs. Maybe they’ll all be very similar, which is a good thing, because it means the problem is well understood and the repair will likely be successful.

After that, a lot of the decision will come down to how much you like the guitar and what you’re willing to spend on it, at the moment. If you really enjoyed it before it started to have the problem and if it can be brought back to that state then maybe this maintenance cost is OK, even if it means the guitar now has more $$ sunk into it than you expected or than you think it’s worth. Kind of like almost every car I’ve ever owned (except one).

P.S. if the wood is dry it’s not a surprise the jack is loose. They can and do work loose anyways. This is very likely not going to be a problem to fix, it could be as simple as tightening the nut. If it’s loose because of cracked wood or something like that then that’s another matter, but you should be able to see something like that by gently wiggling it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 17:02:04
 
JasonM

Posts: 1695
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

He is going to call me with what he finds and how much it will cost. The sucky part to all of this, is he was trying to tell me that he was going to level the frets out. WTF, I asked why? I told him the guitar didn't need fret leveling...

He did say that a brace could of come loose...Also, the input jack has become loose for no apparent reason?


I’m definitely not much of an expert, but the fret level does sound odd unless the person thinks the frets might need a hair more clearance after the bridge is re supported ? A fret level job around here cost 200 alone.

Be cool if you could get a pick through the sound hole, but let us know what the tech comes back with.


String spacing… I have really small hands like a small Asian girl. Still don’t like narrow spacing. Ricardo has said it before many times, feel is all about the action! I have wn old friend who plays a Martin steel string. I handed him my flamemco guitar with narrow string spacing and narrow neck. he complained the neck still felt wide and he wasn’t used to classical guitars. So I handed him my Sanchis with 53mm neck and wider string spacing and he said, “oh this feels better”! Lol. The action is lower
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 17:38:36
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

Hi Kalo, I don’t know if your location allows this, but I think if you’re able to get a couple more estimates that’s a good way to proceed. Ask each person to itemize or explain what they intend to do, then you can have an idea of why there might be differences in the costs. Maybe they’ll all be very similar, which is a good thing, because it means the problem is well understood and the repair will likely be successful.

After that, a lot of the decision will come down to how much you like the guitar and what you’re willing to spend on it, at the moment. If you really enjoyed it before it started to have the problem and if it can be brought back to that state then maybe this maintenance cost is OK, even if it means the guitar now has more $$ sunk into it than you expected or than you think it’s worth. Kind of like almost every car I’ve ever owned (except one).

P.S. if the wood is dry it’s not a surprise the jack is loose. They can and do work loose anyways. This is very likely not going to be a problem to fix, it could be as simple as tightening the nut. If it’s loose because of cracked wood or something like that then that’s another matter, but you should be able to see something like that by gently wiggling it.


Yes, RobF, I plan to do as you have suggested and take it another luthier who I trust more than this tech that is currently looking at the guitar. If he finds the same problem and providing it is affordable and even worth fixing, I will go ahead....


quote:

I’m definitely not much of an expert, but the fret level does sound odd unless the person thinks the frets might need a hair more clearance after the bridge is re supported ? A fret level job around here cost 200 alone.

Be cool if you could get a pick through the sound hole, but let us know what the tech comes back with.


String spacing… I have really small hands like a small Asian girl. Still don’t like narrow spacing. Ricardo has said it before many times, feel is all about the action! I have wn old friend who plays a Martin steel string. I handed him my flamemco guitar with narrow string spacing and narrow neck. he complained the neck still felt wide and he wasn’t used to classical guitars. So I handed him my Sanchis with 53mm neck and wider string spacing and he said, “oh this feels better”! Lol. The action is lower


Hey JasonM,

Thank your for the advise as well....I wouldn't let anyone do fret leveling unless it is really needed....I will definitely let you all know what happens. I should have taken pictures before I sent the guitar in. If, I don't go with this tech repair and get the guitar back in a few days, I will take pictures so you all can see...

I think Ricardo is correct about nut width, maybe it all has to do with action of strings more than anything...

This might sound kind of weird, but, (maybe) getting a regular flamenco guitar is better? I have saved up money, but, there is a part of me that can not justify getting something better. I am NOT professional, and I am not doing a lot of you tube videos as of now....

Anyhow, I really appreciate the advise that everyone has given me...

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 17:55:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

1. Action goes down on guitars as bone wears. Assuming no humidity problem. Check bone wear.
2. Action usually raises when guitars dry out as the neck pulls forward.
3. If open strings buzz it is usually the nut wearing out, you can fix that with a shim under the nut very easily like business card stock.
4. Jacks come loose from vibration. You don’t want em too tight so you can change when they go bad. Always tighten it with a gentle twist (once you get it back to normal) everytime you are about to play.
5. Bridge sinking is a bizarre concept to me…I assume it means the dome produced by solera is expelling water and flattening out? Hard to imagine without tons of cracking at the same time, however I would say the guitar needs to stabilize first, let it dry slowly , then raise the bridge to the correct height. If there had been so much humidity going on before that the bridge actually raises, that was no good imo.
6. Fret leveling is a good thing to fix buzz if the action is correct. The humidity (of the ebony fingerboard) could actually have pushed the frets out of place a little. Check for hairline cracks along fingerboard for evidence the fingerboard shrunk.

_____________________________

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 19:41:35
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

1. Action goes down on guitars as bone wears. Assuming no humidity problem. Check bone wear.
2. Action usually raises when guitars dry out as the neck pulls forward.
3. If open strings buzz it is usually the nut wearing out, you can fix that with a shim under the nut very easily like business card stock.
4. Jacks come loose from vibration. You don’t want em too tight so you can change when they go bad. Always tighten it with a gentle twist (once you get it back to normal) everytime you are about to play.
5. Bridge sinking is a bizarre concept to me…I assume it means the dome produced by solera is expelling water and flattening out? Hard to imagine without tons of cracking at the same time, however I would say the guitar needs to stabilize first, let it dry slowly , then raise the bridge to the correct height. If there had been so much humidity going on before that the bridge actually raises, that was no good imo.
6. Fret leveling is a good thing to fix buzz if the action is correct. The humidity (of the ebony fingerboard) could actually have pushed the frets out of place a little. Check for hairline cracks along fingerboard for evidence the fingerboard shrunk.


First Off, THANK YOU RICARDO, and Second: I should take this list to my guitar tech! Because all he kept saying at the beginning was hmmmm?? Also, this put everything in perspective and puts my mind a little at easy...I can't imagine over humdifying my guitar and I was diligent about humidifying so the guitar wouldn't dry or crack.

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2021 20:11:30
 
JasonM

Posts: 1695
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

5. Bridge sinking is a bizarre concept to me…I assume it means the dome produced by solera is expelling water and flattening out? Hard to imagine without tons of cracking at the same time, however I would say the guitar needs to stabilize first,


True. If the guitar gets dry than the dome can drop and lower string height, then humidity raises the dome again.

Anyway Kalo, get yourself a digital humidity gauge!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2021 1:55:32
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 109
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: GK Negra Bridge Sinking (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

True. If the guitar gets dry than the dome can drop and lower string height, then humidity raises the dome again. Anyway Kalo, get yourself a digital humidity gauge!


JasonM, Yes, I was seriously of thinking getting a digital humidity gauge.

The tech said that it would be four days until he could see what is going on with my guitar, but, some of the reviews said that he is sometimes notorious for being lazy.

I brought the guitar in Monday, and if doesn't call me with a prognosis and estimate by Friday, I feel like picking it up and going somewhere else.

I do appreciate everyone's input...

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2021 14:57:57
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