Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvir, Philip John Lee and Craig Eros who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





My wood acquisition habit   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

My wood acquisition habit 

Twenty minutes from my shop there’s a resawyer with a band saw that can rip a tree in half. He’s so good he can rip 4mm slices off of a log. He generally makes sawed roof beams and table tops, big ones.

I employ Yamashita-san to cut and sand wood for guitars. Last week I dropped off the back & sides for five guitars to be thicknessed on his table sander. It saves the time it would take me to hand plane them. I just write how thick I want it it finish sanded and he calls me in a few days when it’s done.

Every time I visit I look around the yard to see what’s new, he brings logs and trees from all over the country and sometimes gets imported logs. Last week he showed me a mystery hard wood from Africa and a timber of Hinoki from Taiwan. Today he forklifted them out into the light for me to see. I bought both timbers for a ridiculously low price because he’s a commercial beam, post and table slab supplier and likes to help me find guitar wood in the midst of his tree eating shop.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2021 19:16:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Yamashita will call me in a few days when he resaws this material. I think this has got to be some of the hardest Hinoki I’ve seen, and it’s mostly vertical grain. The beam is 12 feet long 6” thick and 12” tall ~ that’s book matched back with a rib laying next to it times how many good ones?

I haven’t figured out what the other wood is yet, but it’s black and dark tan. It’s either going to make back & side sets with some joining, or it’s a lifetime supply of eccentric binding. Which I pretty much already have acquired here.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2021 19:29:27
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Hinoki from Taiwan and mysterious African log.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2021 19:30:59
 
ernandez R

Posts: 482
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Never trust a junky...







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2021 20:49:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Have you gotten any good sets out of that?

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 27 2021 0:45:02
 
ernandez R

Posts: 482
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Stephen,
Out of the three billets of WRC something like 28 sets of straight flawless grain, there is some variation of the grain spacing throughout the width, I tried taking a useful photo but no joy.

The AYC was a different beast, took about three times as long to cut each slice, used a slightly improved version of my gravity feed system so really it just took a lot of time. By the time I had cut all the WRC and then the two back size billets of AYC the one blade was done. Going to see if it will cut the rib sized billets tomorrow. There are some inclusions on the grain here and there but I was just cutting, edge sealing, and stacking as Gerry made it clear this wood had a tendency to check as soon as it was unwrapped and to process it in a timely fashion. I'll give it a week or two to settle down then a quick pass through the drum sander to clean it and see how many good sets there are. Gerry said this wood was well aged and it should be usable soon but I'll need to ask him more about that.

The shop smells amazing.

Funny story, if you recall I had offered to send you some spruce I had that had been put up a few decades ago by a local homesteader, any way I needed to rip about three inches off the inside edge of the six foot long block. Well wouldn't you know it, I ripped the perfect grain side off the block and ruined the whole piece. I made a couple nice flamenco necks out of that flawless strip of Black spruce...

The new bandsaw, 14" 1.75hp, works good, still feels like a decadent luxury but it is the tool for the job, my old craftsman never would have cut the AYC at 8 plus inches tall and it cut through the WRC like butter. The AYC would have liked a more agressive blade, less then the 3tpi, thicker then the .025, and more tooth set but this blade makes for a thin kerf and fine cut. Just have to be patient, if you get greedy the cut gets wonky.

I dress one "side" of the billet then hot glue (not HHG) a plate of plywood to this side. Then I cut the bottom of the billet smooth, flip her over -90 degrees so the plate rides on a fence to the outside of the blade. This way any variation in the cut doesn't effect the next cut. I use a set of all-thread adjusters to push the fence in with each cut, unclamp, adjust by counting turns, then cut the next slice. Simple set of spring rollers hold the wood tight to the fence as it passes through. A line and a pulley draws the wood through the blade vie gravity, used a medium bottle Jack cause it was handy, just enough weight to keep the feed rate optimum. Wired up a shutoff switch too so I could do some chores whilst the machine was making noise and sawdust, set my phone timer for 15 minutes to start the next cut.


HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 27 2021 1:45:22
 
ernandez R

Posts: 482
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Hinoki from Taiwan and mysterious African log.






You slice into her yet?

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2021 21:49:01
 
RobF

Posts: 1112
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Is it possible the mystery wood is some kind of ebony? Is he sure it’s from Africa?

Tomorrow when it’s light out I’ll take a picture of a pile I have in my garage of some kind of South American hardwood I picked up about ten years ago. It’s a bit of a mix but I have no idea what specifically it is. Maybe I can get some ideas here. It actually never occurred to me to ask about it, until now.

Unfortunately, the stuff was improperly stored and it has a lot of checking. I bought the pile when it was sitting outside covered in snow and didn’t pay very much at all because of that. Also unfortunately, I don’t have the means to mill it, and it’s extremely heavy to wrestle with even if I did, so I really don’t know why I bought the stuff, beyond that it was wood, and that’s sometimes all it takes. I think I payed a little over a dollar a BF for it.

It just sits there, taking up space...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2021 4:28:50
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

I’m going to check with him Monday

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2021 8:15:28
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

I finally got over to Yamashita on a day he had time to resaw these planks.

The Hinoki is garbage as far as guitar wood, it flexes like a rubber band. But not a loss because I have a house project that requires flexible thin sheets. It’s surprisingly flexible. But you have to pay to play with big sticks.
The other stuff is nuts, it could be macassar ebony, which isn’t in my top guitar wood category, but if you can make it thin enough it can be ok. This particular log might just be ok for guitars.

The ebony will render four to six sets of clean ribs with two piece backs with lower bout wings. And enough mill scrap to make 50 to 60 headstock veneer sets from the punk wood. And an untold amount of binding. As far as binding this was a good cut session for the price of the wood and mill labor. The back and sides sets paid for the work a few times over. I’m not a macassar fan, but it’s got a lot of gallery appeal to get the rosewood fans looking at you. In other words, I much prefer Cypress, maple, acacias but you do have to play the game of making some dark guitars. Iconoclasm only gets half the bills paid.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2021 18:49:46
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

That’s dumb. I’ll leave it. Tomorrow I’ll unload the van and show how much money I wasted. Hey if you are going to gamble may as well get something fun. He still has 14 “ diameter macassar that’s solid dark. I’m toying with him cut a raster of fingerboard stock if I can talk him into cutting three feet off one log. I don’t want to buy the whole log this time… stupid Hinoki I thought it would be stiff. It’s very odd stuff, the surface is hard and doesn’t nail mark easily, but it’s super bending along the grain. Not ideal.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2021 18:55:47
 
Piwin

Posts: 3287
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Just to avoid potential neck injuries:





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2021 20:20:44
 
RobF

Posts: 1112
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

If it makes you feel any better, here is the pile of mystery wood I bought. The mahogany and cherry on top wasn’t part of the deal, just the stuff with the green ends. The mystery part of the pile sits about two feet high and goes back about eight feet. I didn't measure, but to give an idea of the thickness, the mahogany boards sitting on top are 12/4. I wet a couple of boards that were cut in half length-wise to give an idea of the true hue of the wood. To give another idea of size, the boards I wet are about three feet long. No idea what it is, save that it’s from South America north of the Amazon, according to the person I bought it from.

It has a lot of checking and I suspect the yield, guitar-wise, will be low. But bindings, headplates, possibly bridges(not sure on that one), chessboards, picture frames, cutting boards, if it’s not toxic, there’s lots can be done with it...

I kind of wish I wouldn’t have bought it. I only have about $350 into the pile, so it’s not that big of a deal.







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2021 20:26:49
 
ernandez R

Posts: 482
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

Stephan,
At least upside down you are on the right side of the car, or is that left...

I'm starting to learn myself that the rough chunk of wood game is like a lottery. Buying a big bandsaw, 14 inch is big for my shop, to resaw was part of the winning equation, still..., not sure it will ever pay. Part of the journy I suppose and the magic, unfolding the wood into mirrored leaves has become a vary zen event for me.

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2021 1:32:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to ernandez R

You still can get more value from cutting from planks, ultimately it’s a combination of buying from the boutique sellers, the whole sale sellers and you’re own hunting and resawing. There’s a tree a that grows here which is a lot like Acacia, I’m waiting to find one that’s been taken down. Three years ago I missed one in my own neighborhood that was three feet in diameter. They hauled it away and later told me about it. I saw the stump. If I luck into one of those …

I had a guy in Maine who was looking for maple to cut for violin makers and I bought some nice pieces that made four guitars ( # 4 maple from him is on the bench now) but he also charged me for maple that had a big olive green mark and half his wood was no good for first quality Maple back and sides. So I had less confidence in him. Then I noticed he found what looked to be better logs, he was scouring rural Maine for logs in farmers barns. But he screwed me because he sold the top flight wood to cello makers and didn’t look at what he sent me. Just as I was about to trust him again I was going to give him some strict dictates for what I’d accept he wrote me a note on Facebook messenger- it said: “Not that you even care, but I’m unfriending you because you don’t like Bernie Sanders.”

I wrote back and said, no I don’t care, but I was about to send you money for more maple. I was actually too nice because I never told him he sent me bogus green wood. I was going to politely send him a photo if it and say I appreciate your wood acquisition skill, but I’ll pay handsomely if you can send me clean planks without this pre-spalting discoloration.

I still have some good maple, but not as much as I’d like. But these wood guys are so touchy about politics. I was merely pointing out that Bernie is a two time also ran, but I suppose I was rubbing it in because Jim Clyburn out maneuvered him and that was fantastically played politics.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2021 9:42:24
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

The wood, which I’m calling macassar from now on, was from a small diameter tree that had sustained a lot of cracking.
Ultimately I thought about it as a salvage operation because at Yamashita’s chop shop there is not much use for this kind of material. He makes his living cutting posts and beams to repair old traditional architecture buildings or making huge slab tables. The material he had was not super useful in either capacity.

He buys stuff he thinks I might want and he goes on buying trips and takes chances on woods I might like. He’s a scout. I feel obligated to take chances on wood he has in his store house. Sometimes it’s a hit and other times a boondoggle. But we both enjoy the game.

This time the Hinoki was a wash. It’s stiffness along the grain is awful. It’s heavy and rubbery. I’ll save it for another project.
The macassar rendered five back and side sets if you add a 2.5 “ back strip. It also gave up a minimum of 13 guitars worth of binding ( always valuable in my book) and about a dozen tenor ukulele sets of back and sides.

I’m pleased, Yamashita got some quick cash and I got three nice back and side sets for less than one macassar set from a US house of wood. It’s was a good outing.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 17 2021 15:32:00
 
ernandez R

Posts: 482
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

I like the part about teaming up and sharing or rather repurposing woods that don't suit his scale but fine for yours: symbiotic.

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 18 2021 6:52:05
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: My wood acquisition habit (in reply to estebanana

I figured since the macassar log was cracked apart wickedly and oxidized it was quite dry enough for binding. I’ve used it as strips between maple panel backs and there’s at least 25 guitars worth of binding in just the crappy off cut mill waste.











Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2021 14:41:35
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.