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RE: Can a white man play the blues?   You are logged in as Guest
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estebanana

Posts: 9399
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Piwin

Milton Berle had vaudeville joke:

People ask in disbelief if have a ten inch dick. This one guy says, “ Hey Uncle Milty, becha ten bucks ain’t packin ten inches.” I took out half and won the bet.

Berle got that joke from yo momma.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2021 9:04:32
 
Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to kitarist

quote:

(*) It occured to me that the fact that a gypsy song says 'flamenca de Roma' rather than just 'flamenca' - i.e. that the gypsy cantaor/author felt the need to specify which type of flamenco person - may be an indication that the time frame 1835-38 is very close to when this meaning first emerged (hence the need to clarify which one of the two uses is employed).


Not to mention not all Flamenco music performers were gypsy. Hence other labels such as “gitana Flamenca”, still in use. Silverio Franconetti was Italian... if he had been from Rome, wtf do we call him?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2021 14:57:33
 
Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I know you guys are being polite, but you know exactly what I mean about the difference.


Of course I know the difference. There are also good and bad accompaniment. In this case you are making an assumption based on absence of evidence. I personally only know what I have seen, and as I said “solista” covers it imo. And about certain solistas that bring dancers and singers on tour, sorry that is not the same as being an accompanist. Honestly the only solistas I have seen presenting their show correctly was moraito w Merce and nuñez with Linares ... at least here in USA. As a contrast Sanlucar also brought Linares, total opposite way that was presented. Antonio Rey was with the Farrucos a long time ago, but he was not yet a solista, though he had an album.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2021 15:05:58
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

wtf do we call him?


Tino's pet flamingo that he bought in Flanders happens to dance flamenco. It's the flamenco of the Flemish flamenco's Flemish flamingo, aka, el flamenco del flamenco flamenco del flamenco flamenco.

@estebanana

quote:

if have a ten inch dick


You guys should use metric. Everything sounds bigger in centimetres.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2021 18:18:04
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3435
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

The one thing that remains for me as a new stable fact, not speculation, is that in 1835-1838 there was a gypsy song containing the phrase "Flamenca de Roma(*)'; the word 'flamenca' in that clearly referring to a gypsy/Roma woman and not to a Flemish person. I think that by itself is quite amazing. How it came about is another matter, as we see still open to hypothesizing.

(*) It occured to me that the fact that a gypsy song says 'flamenca de Roma' rather than just 'flamenca' - i.e. that the gypsy cantaor/author felt the need to specify which type of flamenco person - may be an indication that the time frame 1835-38 is very close to when this meaning first emerged (hence the need to clarify which one of the two uses is employed).


It seems that in flamencology, things are often not what they seem. Speaking of Borrow's "Zincali¨

quote:

Jose Manuel Gamboa

Sin embargo, con la repleta galería poética calé que ofreció en sus páginas no hizo mas que confundir, según han demostrado investigadores de eminente prestigio, que niegan la existencia de tal poesía gitana escrita o dicha en caló.


Gamboa subsequently quotes the German Professor Schuchardt "Die cantes flamenco" 1881

Schuchardt points out that it has become fashionable in certain non-gypsy circles, including the señoritos, to associate with gitanos and to adopt elements of gitano clothing, speech and mannerisms. He calls these non-gypsy people "la aficion."

Schuchardt concludes

quote:

Creo haber demostrado que los cantes flamencos no pueden considerarse de ningún modo como el declive de una antigua poesía gitana, sino que son esencialmente una poesía andaluza que ha sufrido en su lenguaje, por de pronto, un cierto agitanamiento. De antemano podemos señalar que al buscar en los cantes otros elementos gitanos, solo han aparecidos bien por casualidad, bien porque han sido introducidos en ellos por la afición, lo que quiere decir no son de ningún modo elementos esenciales y originarios.


Schuchardt says the cantes flamencos of the latter 19th century are not original Gypsy poetry translated from caló, rather they are andaluz poetry that has been to some extent "Gypsyfied" either by accident or by the payo aficionados.

The www.translate.google.com English versions of the Spanish quotes are comprehensible, except for translating "agitanamiento [gypsification]" as "agitation."

Schuchardt's conclusion accords with Borrow's report that fifty years earlier very few gitanos could carry on much of a conversation in caló, though most could throw in enough words to become unintelligible to a non-Gypsy. Or sometimes people thought Gypsies were speaking caló when in fact they were employing the thieves' jargon germania--a different language.

Borrow could tell because he had learned caló well enough to translate the King James Gospel of Luke into caló.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2021 23:10:32
 
Beni2

 

Posts: 139
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

It seems that in flamencology, things are often not what they seem. Speaking of Borrow's "Zincali¨

People don't even know what flamencology is. It gets used on the forums to describe any flamenco study and act as an abstract place holder for singular identity (i.e. aficionado, scholar, neophyte) against a practitioner identity as if flamenco never go to school or scholars never learn from masters.
Gamboa, Hurtado Torres, and Steingress, as well as Castro Buendia and Nunez are not the same as Climent, Blas Infante, or Molina and Mairena are not the same as Demofilo and Schuchardt are not the same as Borrow and Ford.
I recommended Gamboa, Hurtado Torres, and Steingress. Steingress covers everything in your post in more detail and with a more cohesive narrative than Gamboa.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 0:30:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 9399
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

chuchardt "Die cantes flamenco" 1881

Schuchardt points out that it has become fashionable in certain non-gypsy circles, including the señoritos, to associate with gitanos and to adopt elements of gitano clothing, speech and mannerisms. He calls these non-gypsy people "la aficion."


That’s probably the extension of the fascination with majo - maja culture, senoritos and gentry dressed like Frida Kahlo during Goya’s era fifty 60 years earlier. The lower aristocratic gentry had a funny relationship with the street, they had a genre of painting they collected that were of stage coach robbers and highway men killers ambushing coaches in the woods. Goya was commissioned to paint a few of them. And the fascination with folkloric dressing in the 19th century is curious because it was associated with Spanish nationalism during the Napoleon’s wars.

And this is the time that some Gitano people may have fought up north in the low country.

The other day I studied over the influence of music coming in from the north, Josquin was heavily studied at the beginning of the 16th century. During that time the kings of Spain along with high ranking dukes and other court administrators took their families to Flanders for extended periods of time, a year or two and then to Italy, Rome for a year to conduct government business. The court music directors and musicians also went and studied in Flanders. Later in the 17th century court representatives were sent instead of the king himself. Velasquez the kings painter was sent to Rome for a year or two, but stayed longer to a collect art for Spain and enjoy Rome. Eventually the king, Phil, got after him and wrote to say get your butt back to Madrid.

Velasquez’ secretary and studio assistant was black or moorish, there were a lot of traders and international commerce done by non Germanic looking peoples. These flamencos of Rome existed far back into the Middle Ages due to trading.

I’m suspicious of any modern take on these concepts being invented in the 19th century. All these themes have roots that extend back if you find the separate history disciplines that trace them.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 3:03:49
 
estebanana

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ote:

I know you guys are being polite, but you know exactly what I mean about the difference.


Of course I know the difference. There are also good and bad accompaniment. In this case you are making an assumption based on absence of evidence. I personally only know what I have seen, and as I said “solista” covers it imo. And about certain solistas that bring dancers and singers on tour, sorry that is not the same as being an accompanist. Honestly the only solistas I have seen presenting their show correctly was moraito w Merce and nuñez with Linares ... at least here in USA. As a contrast Sanlucar also brought Linares, total opposite way that was presented. Antonio Rey was with the Farrucos a long time ago, but he was not yet a solista, though he had an album


Ok, fair enough, and of course I know that you know that I know you know how to distinguish.

The question or the challenge was posed not by me, but by someone else, so the burden of evidence isn’t on me, I merely asked the question be followed up. The person who said asking if a white guy can play blues is like asking us Grisha plays flamenco. That’s a statement that deserves scrutiny because it’s not a simple comparison. But there we worked through it, and you pretty much split the baby by application of Solomonic wisdom saying that flamenco guitar SHOULD in part be judged by value of accompanying knowledge and playing, but some soloists qualify by other criteria within some flamenco framework.

And, yes I’ve seen more of those espectaculo block buster shows than I care to admit, and didn’t deeply enjoy them or feel flamenco edified by them. Some are presented better than others. I suppose I’m lucky for spending a lot of time in the Bay Area where small venue flamenco with cante taken seriously. Many singers from Spain have been brought by Yaelisa, Tania, and other dancers, plus the times David Serva came with Pepe Torres and people from his circles, and Nina Menendez bringing many singers for concert series that were exclusively cante without baile. I saw Agujetas twice in Berkeley for example. The list of small company flamenco that’s passed through SF is legendary, including the show in SF in the 80’s that had Farruco and Fernanda for six weeks at a stretch.

For me the purpose of a big show coming to town is so you can go to the dinner after the show and not get drunk so you can go with the artists to someone’s house after the dinner and get them comfy enough to maybe begin to sing to ten people after midnight or 2 am. The big show pays them well enough to go on tour, but it can also if planned correctly mean that a core of aficionados can get a few nights of juergafucation and plan an actual paid juerga ( I’ve paid 80 bucks myself on occasions to get Pepe Torres to dance for 20 people in room, I’d pay a hundred easy and more) right. So when these rare things are going to happen and you plan and work with concert promoters and dancers to set aside down time for artists to visit and do a well paid private juerga, you don’t need any solo guitar... except that time Pepe Torres sat in my friend’s kitchen with a few guys and played toque from everyone in his family, it the night......

For me that’s why I’m interested in distinguishing between the various kinds of careers and differences. I want the small room flamenco to stay alive because people NEED to know the difference and learn to pay for those close encounters or be extremely thankful when they happen spontaneously.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 9:58:36
 
Piwin

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Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I’m interested in distinguishing between the various kinds of careers and differences


If people can distinguish between a flamenco, a flamenco and a flamenco, then I'm sure they can also distinguish between a flamenco and a flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 14:30:08
 
Morante

 

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Piwin

It is strange how a thread in Foro Flamenco can take on a life of its own and end up completely different.

My original post was tongue in cheek, only observing that Tino, who is neither Spanish nor gitano, is a tocaor highly respected by his colleagues. ¡Como se ha cambiado!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 19:18:57
 
estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Piwin

Don’t be flamencologo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 20:11:03
 
estebanana

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Morante

To Americans the subject of the title is extremely provocative, it’s no surprise this discussion grew legs. When you say that to an American who knows about music it brings up the history of American music in the US when we did have Minstrel Shows in which whites would imitate black performers. It’s a very seriously provocative subject to us, and this conversation hasn’t really gone too deep into it, yet. Black and white music is kind of a big deal in the US, I don’t know how people in other countries perceive this topic, but it’s very carefully treated because there’s a fine line between learning black music with respect to how it and why it developed and its history of being twisted and exploited.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 20:12:49
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Beni2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beni2

quote:

Talking in arabic and using a word felah mengu, which was pronounced and written as flamenco

Can you confirm your sources for pronunciation?

I can't. Maybe the whole story can be explained by the bird flamingo. Flama in spanish means flame which is often associated with red color. For example Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs show these birds in red. Feathers of flamingo birds look reddish and pink. Very eye-catching. Maybe gypsy people were called flamingos or flamencos because they wear mostly reddish and colorful dresses. One can ask a similar question why new zealand people of european descent are called kiwis - also a unique bird. There's a simple story behind. You can google it.

Btw, a gypsy girl in traditional costume.



As for flemish people, either they were called after flamingo birds as well for whatever reason or it was a coincidence.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 20:32:25
 
Mark2

Posts: 1893
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

Roy Buchanan-he could play the blues for my money. So could SRV, his brother, Charlie Musslewhite, Ron Thompson, Eric Clapton, Rory Gallagher, and thousands of others. And let's not leave the white women out of it: Bonnie Raitt

Any of the above better representatives of the blues than BB, Freddie or Albert? Not IMO. Doesn't mean they couldn't play.

Tino can obviously play flamenco and so can Grisha. Grisha is so good that I don't care if he ever accompanies anyone.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 20:36:52
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3435
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Beni2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beni2
I recommended Gamboa, Hurtado Torres, and Steingress. Steingress covers everything in your post in more detail and with a more cohesive narrative than Gamboa.


I've read Gamboa and Hurtado Torres.

Looking around for a copy of Steingress "Sociologia del Cante Flamenco" I see that Amazon can send me a copy for $855, with free shipping no less. The German edition is available for $45, but I haven't read or spoken German to any real extent since graduating from university in a previous geological era.

The University of New Mexico has a copy of the Spanish edition. In theory I could get it by interlibrary loan, but libraries here in Austin and elsewhere have been fairly well screwed up by the pandemic.

Any suggestions?

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 21:00:25
 
tf10music

 

Posts: 112
Joined: Jan. 3 2017
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

Looking around for a copy of Steingress "Sociologia del Cante Flamenco" I see that Amazon can send me a copy for $855, with free shipping no less. The German edition is available for $45, but I haven't read or spoken German to any real extent since graduating from university in a previous geological era.

I managed to get a hold of a used copy of Steingress' "Sobre flamenco y flamencología" for cheap a while back. It's not bad, but I find myself suspicious of the way Steingress positions himself. He's effectively a class reductionist in his analysis of flamenco's origins (not the origins of the word "flamenco," but rather of the music and letras as they exist in their modern form). His stuff is still worth reading, but I think it's important not to take it at face value. He offers some valuable insights (flamenco as a consolidation of subaltern identity, etc), but his overarching analytical perspective is about as credible as that of someone who believes that the social problems in the United States can be solved solely by catering to the interests of a monolithic working class without also dealing with the lasting legacy of chattel slavery.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 22:16:55
 
tf10music

 

Posts: 112
Joined: Jan. 3 2017
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

Any suggestions?


Try librería babel in Granada, abebooks, or todocolección. I've managed to score some steals over the years on the latter two in particular.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 22:19:22
 
estebanana

Posts: 9399
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to devilhand

quote:

Egyptian hieroglyphs show these birds in red. Feathers of flamingo birds look reddish and pink. Very eye-catching. Maybe gypsy people were called flamingos or flamencos because they wear mostly reddish and colorful dresses. One can ask a similar question why new zealand people of european descent are called kiwis - also a unique bird. There's a simple story behind. You can google it.


That is hands down the stupidest thing I’ve heard in regards to the origin of the word flamenco-

First Egyptian hieroglyphs are not pictographs, they are symbols for phonemes. Meaning in Egyptian spoken at the time they were made has nothing to do with Spanish or Arabic and was a dead language from the Late Dynasty of the Ptolemy rulers until a French linguist figured out the symbols are not pictographs, but sound symbols. The language was dead for 2000 years

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 23:21:55
 
estebanana

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Mark2

If you read clearly what I’ve written, I’ve said the same thing you stated. But I disagree accompaniment playing, good accompaniment is more interesting than solos. When the guitar solo portion of the show happens, I think, this will be a good moment to escape and get a beer at the bar so I can sip it when the singer comes back on stage.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2021 23:27:16
 
estebanana

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

The question in the Americas has always been answered, can people from different racial backgrounds play blues or other music that’s not originally white. The answer is yes, and a few gifted artists excel at it. The part that’s pushed into the background that makes it touchy is that some players who are white get an advantage, or had a marketing concertizing advantage because they could bring the music to white audiences that the black players didn’t have clear access to. And I’m not being PC, it’s just a piece of it that gets swept out of sight. And for all the brilliant players like SRV or others who there were unrecognized black players who didn’t get what they deserved.

That’s why it’s a weird way to make a comparison or a point, because it leaves out the original and centers the question on whiteness. People today gloss it over and think Oh man what a drag that guy is saying this uncomfortable stuff. We need to think more about it in relation to how we make casual references.

I watched an interview with Ron Carter the bassist in which he says he was playing in a studio orchestra, because he trained as classical bassist in the early fifties. Leopold Stokowski was the conductor. After a session Stokowski says to Carter, young man I’d really love to have you in my orchestra in Houston or wherever it was, but the board of directors would be against it, and I have no power over it.

It changed Carter’s life because the reality set in that he’d have to play jazz in bars to support his family and get work. Luckily not long after the talk with Stokowski he got a job playing regularly with a band in the NYC scene. That lead to Miles Davis coming to hear him, and offered him a job on the spot to tour Europe. And the rest is history.

As it happens, Ron Carter is extremely talented and musical, he survived the 1950’s and was able to be a pro, but he doesn’t play in orchestras. Carter probably could have become a classical bassist with a solo career, but the modern classical bassist who broke into solo bass playing in the symphony world was Gary Carr, a white Canadian. It could have been Ron Carter in a different time, but since he was black he had a narrower path of opportunity. And we all love Miles’ records, it was by this bassists life in which a door closed because of racism that we got to hear him become the anchor of Davis’ band. And he plays great solos, but he made that band have a center.

We tend to center our stuff on white comparison, can a white guy do this or that, to me not so impressive a comparison line. Ron Carter is the kind of guy to compare achievements to.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 0:17:26
 
Piwin

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

until a French linguist figured out the symbols are not pictographs, but sound symbols


Yes and no. Hieroglyphic is similar to Chinese script, i.e. semanto-phonetic. Think of how in Japanese you can have compounds where one kanji hints at the meaning and the other at the pronunciation. Hieroglyphic is a bit similar. So, for example, if I wanted to write "crocodile", I'd write the three glyphs for the consonants "msh" (like abjads, hieroglyphic doesn't usually specify vowels) and at the end put the crocodile glyph to specify the meaning.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 2:16:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 9399
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

es and no. Hieroglyphic is similar to Chinese script, i.e. semanto-phonetic. Think of how in Japanese you can have compounds where one kanji hints at the meaning and the other at the pronunciation. Hieroglyphic is a bit similar. So, for example, if I wanted to write "crocodile", I'd write the three glyphs for the consonants "msh" (like abjads, hieroglyphic doesn't usually specify vowels) and at the end put the crocodile glyph to specify the meaning.


Ah huh, but how did anyone in Europe know about that until the Rosetta Stone was deciphered and Champoleon realized the hieroglyphic it was phonetic?
It was a dead largely unseen until well after flamenco became a common word in Iberia.
Flamingos existed and the Portuguese named them in the 16th century....

The common use of flamenco in relation to music is still pretty strong, and as a double entendres, flamingos

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 2:39:21
 
Piwin

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

Absolutely.

I was just being an annoying know-it-all on a minor detail.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 2:50:34
 
estebanana

Posts: 9399
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

I was just being an annoying know-it-all on a minor detail.


Hey welcome to my side of the block

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 3:25:42
 
ernandez R

Posts: 759
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

I’ve noticed here in the states I new form of revisionism that modifies the histories by removing the colored mans place on it.
Seen it about Spain and the place the Moors have in their history recently
Wish I had a grasp of this and facts at hand to explain this better...

Anyway, this has been on my mind since this has come up a couple times in different threads.
Everyone has, or rather feels, a need to use history to explain their place in it, for good or bad, for power or gain, it’s up to us to see this in others and ourselves and try our best to be true.

Interesting discussion all around, and if it makes one think, just I little bit beyond what we had before, then it has proven its value.

HR

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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 4:51:01
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

That is hands down the stupidest thing I’ve heard in regards to the origin of the word flamenco-

First Egyptian hieroglyphs are not pictographs, they are symbols for phonemes. Meaning in Egyptian spoken at the time they were made has nothing to do with Spanish or Arabic and was a dead language from the Late Dynasty of the Ptolemy rulers until a French linguist figured out the symbols are not pictographs, but sound symbols. The language was dead for 2000 years

If you read it closely I didn't use Egyptian hieroglyphs to explain the origin of the word flamenco.
I mentioned it only to stress the fact that flamingo birds were well known in ancient civilisations and the interaction with human beings in every aspect of life is well documented. And the important one - flamingo birds were portrayed as a symbolic figure for color red. Later at some point in history flamingo must have been derived from the word flame or flama which is often associated with red.

As I mentioned above in one of my posts I favor felah-mengu hypothesis because of a strong arabic influence on flamenco. But this flamingo bird is the 2nd best for me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 11:18:28
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1643
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Mark2

quote:

Copyist? I would never apply that term to a musician. For that matter, playing music as written, or copying someone's music, is usually more difficult than playing original music.

To me the other way round. 'Good artists copy, great artists steal' can be applied to musicians as well.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 12:13:27
 
Fluknu

 

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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana




Starts at two minutes. I think that guy can sing the blues. I met Willy a couple of times in person. He was dangerously extraordinary.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 15:01:17
 
estebanana

Posts: 9399
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to devilhand

I realized that, but if I hadn’t ignored it and mansplained that I know the name of the French linguist who broke the mystery of the Rosetta Stone I would have had a frustrating day.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 15:29:10
 
estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Fluknu

There’s no shortage of white euro dudes who can take on the blues. The thing is how we talk about it and center the conversation on white dudes. Think about that. There are several European jazz masters too, but we always need to remember where it came from, because the black culture it came from was denied equal opportunity to sell their work on stage. There is nothing to prove, it’s just about recognizing how we make whiteness the center of a conversation about a music with black origins.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2021 15:36:21
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