Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to gerundino63)
Looks Brazilian. Doesn’t matter. Buy it.
Seriously, it looks like it’s a really nice guitar. If you’re staying inside the EU you shouldn’t have any problems.
P.S. being North American, I’m probably the wrong guy to advise on how the EU is w.r.t. Brazilian, but I was under the impression that as long as you keep it inside the EU you’re OK for travel. Not sure about selling across countries but the sales site (or other EU members here) should be able to answer all those questions. Regardless, if the price is reasonable you should consider buying it, IMO.
Thanks for the reply. Well, even within my own country it is not legal to sell without papers. (Also not within the eu borders). Dalbergian Negra is the big exeption.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to gerundino63)
I’m a fan of Jose’ Lopez Bellido. If I was in you I’d buy it. It’s legal in Eu the trade of second hand guitars with Brazilian rosewood: your country shouldn’t be an exception after the CITES authority clarified the point.
Dalbergia nigra Dalbergia nigra is strictly protected and is listed in Appendix A and Appendix I. You need a permit for import and export. You may not import wood, products or objects made from Dalbergia nigra for commercial use. By commercial use, we mean that you give it away, exchange it, rent or sell it. It doesn't matter if you get anything in return. So you can only import it into the European Union (EU) if you keep it yourself.
Do you transport or sell / sell Dalbergia nigra within the EU? Then you need an EU certificate. And you must be able to prove that you have legally bought or received the object or product. More information about the EU certificate can be found on the page CITES species within the European Union. Would you like to know more about trade outside the EU? Then view the page CITES species outside the European Union.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to gerundino63)
Well, things can be seen a little more widely. It's true dalbergia nigra is listed in Appendix A and Appendix I of the CITES and therefore you need a permit, which is basically a statement that the Brazilian rosewood used for your guitar was bought before the cites rules were set in place. In this you are right.
Next aspect is that you cannot really be sure that in this guitar there is dalbergia nigra: The very fact that you are asking here, means the seller doesn't know for sure and the label doesn't strictly report it as "palosanto rio". I for one can say it looks like a Brazilian and the smell may offer an evidence more, but otherwise it could be a different kind of dalbergia or even a Pauferro set... Many shops just say it's a RSA rosewood without investigating and running in problems.
Given these circumstances and the Cites exceptions, it's unlikely anyone will check what kind of dalbergia has been used in a 20 years old finished instrument.
I for one wouldn't buy a new guitar with Brazilian rosewood back and sides or any species endangering the environment, but I see no reason to avoid old guitars made with wood in stock for many years. This is just me obviously.
Ten years ago I bought a set of rosewood dining room furniture, made in Denmark in the 1950s, from a dealer in Vancouver, Canada. Before I bought it I questioned him about importing it into the USA. He said that when they had a truckload to ship they loaded up their truck, took the stuff to Bremerton, Washington, USA and shipped it from there.
"What about U.S. Customs?" I asked.
The dealer said U.S. Customs had impounded one shipment, asserting that it contained Dabergia Nigra. The dealer hired an expert from a Canadian university, who challenged Customs to prove that it was Dalbergia Nigra. After a few months of back and forth, Customs admitted they were unable to prove it was.
The dealer said they had no further trouble with U.S. Customs.
Of course it would be a serious inconvenience for a guitar you bought to be impounded by the Dutch government or E.U. authorities, and they might be more determined to defend their actions than U.S. Customs was.
I was aware of the exception for musical instruments cited by Echi, but did not take the time to look up the source again.
I have traveled to Europe and back to the USA with a Brazilian rosewood guitar in recent years with no problem at either end. Back in the USA I have found a notice in the case that it had been opened and inspected by the Transportation Security Administration. They are not the Customs Service, but the TSA works closely with them to interdict smuggling.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to gerundino63)
How much are they asking for this guitar? The description says string height at the 12th fret 2.8mm. But there's no information about the string height at the bridge. To me this is really a red flag.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
But there's no information about the string height at the bridge. To me this is really a red flag.
Yeah, listen to satan's paw - he got swindled recently by an unscrupulous air guitar dealer. Shoulda checked that string height at the bridge before buying!
Posts: 1770
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to devilhand)
I see no red flaggs here. If the 12 fret is +/- 3mm. And the brake angle is still ok, the buzzing is minor, the string hight at the bridge is mostly also ok. The asking price is not important, at the end it is sold at the selling price.
Posts: 15854
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
How much are they asking for this guitar? The description says string height at the 12th fret 2.8mm. But there's no information about the string height at the bridge. To me this is really a red flag.
The info is there in the photos if you understand what to look for. However, to discern properly you have to have owned a flamenco guitar or two.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to gerundino63)
The beads may offer an evidence but they may be there also for other reasons: in my experience the guitars of Jose’ Lopez Bellido may own a certain softness (which I like) and maybe the owner tried to improve the strings break angle. Bridge holes can be a little worn also, otherwise the guy just lowered the bone too much. God idea to ask.
RE: Which rosewood is this? (in reply to gerundino63)
I think the next step would be for you to visit the shop and personally examine the guitar, if possible, as clearly you are quite interested in it. They may be able to address your misgivings about the rosewood or, for that matter, the guitar itself may speak to that, as if you don’t like the feel or sound it won’t matter. And, if you do like it, the detail concerns, such as break angle and action, can likely all be addressed, as well.
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread