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What do you mean, 'Who's the author?' - ALL OF THEM!
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to kitarist)
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quote:
In this case I think they used it correctly - 'assay' = 'test', roughly. Not sure why they didn't just say "..interpretation of tests for monitoring.."
Probably because they thought the term "assay" demonstrated their elevated status as members of the "academy," while "test" would be too pedestrian. Academics can be parodies of themselves. My wife has a PhD in Medical Anthropology, and while she was doing her course work, she would consult source material wherein the term "explicate" was constantly used instead of "explain" or "analyze," no doubt because it revealed the author as a member of the "guild," rather than some shmuck using readily understood English.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 8 2021 13:36:17
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rombsix
Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
Probably because they thought the term "assay" demonstrated their elevated status as members of the "academy," while "test" would be too pedestrian. Academics can be parodies of themselves. My wife has a PhD in Medical Anthropology, and while she was doing her course work, she would consult source material wherein the term "explicate" was constantly used instead of "explain" or "analyze," no doubt because it revealed the author as a member of the "guild," rather than some shmuck using readily understood English.
It's really interesting that you mentioned that, Bill. As I get more "seasoned" in psychiatry, I try to simplify my language more and more. I try to use less and less of that style of communication, especially OUTSIDE of clinical settings. I've seen psychiatrists get so into "interviewing styles" that they start to them use that language in day to day activities outside of patient care, and they state this is "more effective" means of interaction because if it works so well clinically, then it should be a more effective means of communicating in general and with anyone.
I find that to be quite an artificial way of communication, and even though science and literature seems to favor that direction at least in clinical settings, I worry about what George Carlin mentions about how language is evolving such as with the term "shell shock" and how that changed into "post-traumatic stress disorder". Check out that video of him.
I've been criticized by folks for saying these things, especially in today's world especially in the USA which got hit harder (I think) than other places in the world regarding COVID, BLM, Trump / politics, extreme left / extreme right, political correctness, a culture of extreme safety-ism, etc. It's driving me bonkers and making me want to just remain silent from now on for fear of saying anything to anyone lest they receive it in a way that offends their hyper-sensitive selves.
_____________________________
Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Mar. 8 2021 16:37:17
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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quote:
Have you any feel as to how good the French translation is?
The first translation was done in the 70s by Francis Ledoux, towards the end of a long and successful career of translating Dickens, Poe, Walpole, Melville, etc. His translation of LoTR reads very nicely.
However, at the time none of the other works, at the exception of The Hobbit, had been published yet, so Ledoux was working without any knowledge of The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc. The result is a mixed bag. Ledoux had excellent prose, but certain things were lost. For instance, much of the impression of historical depth was lost. The toponyms were just toponyms, with no apparent connection to any distant past. Direct speech was often smoothed over, with very little difference made between how a Hobbit would talk and a lord of Gondor would talk. Ledoux also had a tendency to try and connect the tale to places or things that a French audience would know (for instance, he sometimes used expressions that explicitly referenced French regions like "Bretagne"). While it perhaps did help shed clarity to the text, unfortunately it also had the effect of breaking the feeling of being immersed in an entirely fictional universe.
After the success of the movies in the 2000s, a new translation was commissioned by publishing house Christian Bourgois, and done by translator Daniel Lauzon. His translation is in many ways superior to Ledoux's. Most of the above-mentioned issues were resolved. There was one issue though, and that is that many readers had grown attached to the previous translation, and some changes were hard to swallow. Frodo went from "Frodon Sacquet" to "Frodo Bessac", Rivendell from "Fondcombe" to "Fendeval", Strider from "Grand-Pas" to "L'Arpenteur", Shadowfax from "Gripoil" to "Scadufax", etc. So many fans had mixed feelings about it. They recognised that his translation was better but also felt a bit torn, since they were attached to the names they had grown up with.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Mar. 9 2021 1:30:57
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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If you do give it a go, an easy tell to be sure that you're getting the new translation and not the old one is that the first book is now titled La Fraternité de l'Anneau, whereas in the old translation it was La Communauté de l'Anneau.
I don't think Google Translate is wrong on this one, as that would probably be what "arpenteur" would mean in most contexts. In the context of LoTR it didn't even dawn on me to interpret it that way! If you look up the word on TLFi, it says that the meaning of "arpenteur" as someone who walks in strides only appears in the 1845 Bescherelle dictionary. So it's not a particularly common use of the term. However, the verb it is derived from, "arpenter", does carry both meanings (to survey land; to walk in strides) equally. I'd imagine the second meaning was derived from the first by some sort of analogy to how surveying work was done, but I'm just speculating. On a side note, "arpenter" comes from "arpent" (French acre), which happens to be one of only a small number of French words that are thought to derive from Gaulish.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Mar. 9 2021 6:24:12
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to kitarist)
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Behold, Gondor, the descendant of Beren and Lúthien, descendant of the Faithful of Númenor, of Elendil the High King of the Dúnedain, and of Isildur; your king... Johnnie Walker. Shhh guys, I don't know why he dresses like that either. But don't mock. The guy's 87 and still scored that Elf chick, so he must be doing something right. All hail Johnnie 
Oh yeah, another funny bit in the new translation is that "Bree" was turned into "Brie". Which is fine, but the Shire was already "Comté". So basically the first bit of French LoTR is about how the hobbits traveled from one cheese to another. I kind of wish they had pushed it further. You know, they go on to meet Elrond in the valley of Camembert, trie to cross Mount Roquefort but are pushed back by the smell and forced to traverse the mines of Reblochon, where they run into some mean Munsters and one guy falls through a hole in the bridge of Emmental. But eventually they manage to make their way to Mount Fondu and cast the ring into the melting cheese.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Mar. 9 2021 7:55:26
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rombsix
Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
The nominalization of the verb "ask" is unnecessary and grating. "What's the ask here?" "That's a big ask." We have a perfectly useful word--"request"--that can be used as either a noun or a verb. Why do we insist on using the verb "ask" as a clunky-sounding noun?
Because people are losing their minds...
When two fifth-grade basketball teams play each other in today's world (in the USA), one team scores 20 points and the other team scores 10 points. The game ends, however, both teams receive trophies. Rinse and repeat, then these children become 21-year-olds and two of them apply for one job. Person A is smart and gets the job. Person B is mediocre and doesn't get the job. Person B then is confused: why did he get a trophy when he was on the team that scored 10 points during that fifth-grade basketball game, but now he got a kick in the ass and was told to go home? Depression ensues, then suicide.
One team did not lose while the other won. They just scored a "different" number of points. The number 20 was not higher/lower or better/worse than the number 10 - it was just "different".
Just a hyperbolic means of trying to illustrate the phenomenon that I've noticed and that y'all have echoed here. This is a very dangerous trajectory that, when coupled with the toxicity / addictiveness of social media, is going to lead future generations down a very treacherous path (and it already has started doing so).
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Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Mar. 9 2021 20:19:22
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to rombsix)
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quote:
When two fifth-grade basketball teams play each other in today's world (in the USA), one team scores 20 points and the other team scores 10 points. The game ends, however, both teams receive trophies. Rinse and repeat, then these children become 21-year-olds and two of them apply for one job. Person A is smart and gets the job. Person B is mediocre and doesn't get the job. Person B then is confused: why did he get a trophy when he was on the team that scored 10 points during that fifth-grade basketball game, but now he got a kick in the ass and was told to go home? Depression ensues, then suicide.
One team did not lose while the other won. They just scored a "different" number of points. The number 20 was not higher/lower or better/worse than the number 10 - it was just "different".
You bring up a phenomenon that goes considerably beyond the misuse of language, Ramzi. It is the elevation of "self-esteem" to the level of something not earned but given, particularly in the educational establishment. And this has been going on for at least the last 30 years or so. Students are praised for mediocre work. In sports, as you note, some schools do away with scores so no one will feel like his team "lost."
It is the driving force behind "social promotions," so that those students who cannot read or do math at grade level will not lose their "self-esteem" if held back. And most high schools have ditched the "Honor Role," in order not to damage the "self-esteem" of those who didn't make it. We have glorified mediocrity while diminishing the importance of recognizing excellence.
It is perfectly encapsulated in Garrison Keillor's fictional town in his series "A Prairie Home Companion," where all the children are "above average."
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 9 2021 21:18:35
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rombsix
Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
You bring up a phenomenon that goes considerably beyond the misuse of language, Ramzi. It is the elevation of "self-esteem" to the level of something not earned but given, particularly in the educational establishment. And this has been going on for at least the last 30 years or so. Students are praised for mediocre work. In sports, as you note, some schools do away with scores so no one will feel like his team "lost." It is the driving force behind "social promotions," so that those students who cannot read or do math at grade level will not lose their "self-esteem" if held back. And most high schools have ditched the "Honor Role," in order not to damage the "self-esteem" of those who didn't make it. We have glorified mediocrity while diminishing the importance of recognizing excellence.
It is perfectly encapsulated in Garrison Keillor's fictional town in his series "A Prairie Home Companion," where all the children are "above average."
Bill
Yeah, this crap doesn't exist in Beirut. Over there, you're lucky to pass the damn academic year and get promoted to the next one. Perhaps a bit too far in the opposite direction / extreme... Over there, it is (well, at least when I was in high-school) known that on non-science classes, you cannot get higher than 85% on a test. If you got Shakespeare to write a damn essay, he'd not go beyond 85%.
We'd get taught chapters 3 and 4 in physics, then the test would cover chapters 5 and 6 to see which students read ahead and were "advanced" in that way.
It probably caused some problems with students because it was harsh, but damn, it's probably not a coincidence that Lebanese immigrants are some of the most successful in the world.
Of course, a balance would be best, but if I had to choose one extreme, I honestly think the Beirut one is the lesser of two evils because the world is definitely not getting any nicer / less treacherous in how it treats people.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/who-are-the-most-successful-immigrants-in-the-world/
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Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Mar. 9 2021 21:23:58
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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I read an anthropologist's account of some of his observation of a hunter-gatherer group. A young man scored an impressive kill and supplied the group with plenty of desirable meat, which was shared out equally.
People began to cast mild aspersions on the meat. When the anthropologist asked about it he was told, "We always show a little disrespect for the meat, so the hunter doesn't get conceited."
My sister-in-law was an only child, as was my wife. Both of my parents were from large families. Both my father and my mother made it clear that cooperation among their siblings was absolutely required.
Years after first meeting a fair sized group of my extended family for the first time, my sister-in-law told me, "I thought you were all mad at each other."
"Why was that?"
"All the ridicule and joshing that went back and forth, I mistook for agression."
On both sides of my family you were expected to be able to take it as well as to dish it out. Maybe it was a mechanism to limit conceit, and to enable cooperation.
Among my brother, my cousins and I, I can't think of anyone who suffers from damaged self esteem.
RNJ
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Date Mar. 10 2021 0:12:19
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
Among my brother, my cousins and I, I can't think of anyone who suffers from damaged self esteem.
You, as I, grew up in an era when self-esteem was earned, not given as a matter of a child's right. I doubt that your parents praised you for a mediocre effort. I know mine sure didn't. And we are both better for it.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 10 2021 2:47:32
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Of course I was joking about Assay essay....but about the big in your face academic word use...yes I find it fun to push back and make fun of these types, sorry. For example, my wife loves dishing out these big words all time...”Richard, you are incorrigible!”...and I return with “well, don’t encourage me then”. Or my repeat favorite about a beloved older family member “he is exhibiting signs of Aspergers again....” and I always say “well, I for one think his Burgers taste great!”. And on it goes. She uses them less with me now after 20 years of that.
And the other topic going on, here, LOTR. Ok, I did not read the books, and not going to. I watch the movies. Can somebody please explain to me (SPOILER ALERT) ghost army that appears suddenly in the story and after easy convincing, saves the day??? I mean the impossible task they built up for 8 hours (and several years waiting for movie goers like me) suddenly gets solved by this ghost army the author appears to have pulled right out of his butt. Every time I ask the LOTR nerds to explain it to me they just condescendingly tell me “you should read the books!!!”...well come on, can anybody simply explain what I missed and how that ending makes sense in the bigger picture? I accept it was a film plot hole that is answered by the book version, but what is it? I saw the Hobbit too, that didn’t help. . Why wasn’t getting that invincible ghost army priority 1 of the darn fellowship from the start?
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Mar. 11 2021 15:39:44
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rombsix
Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
And the other topic going on, here, LOTR. Ok, I did not read the books, and not going to. I watch the movies. Can somebody please explain to me (SPOILER ALERT) ghost army that appears suddenly in the story and after easy convincing, saves the day??? I mean the impossible task they built up for 8 hours (and several years waiting for movie goers like me) suddenly gets solved by this ghost army the author appears to have pulled right out of his butt. Every time I ask the LOTR nerds to explain it to me they just condescendingly tell me “you should read the books!!!”...well come on, can anybody simply explain what I missed and how that ending makes sense in the bigger picture? I accept it was a film plot hole that is answered by the book version, but what is it? I saw the Hobbit too, that didn’t help. . Why wasn’t getting that invincible ghost army priority 1 of the darn fellowship from the start?
I just watched the trilogy for the first time ever about two months ago with several friends over one weekend. I felt the movies were too long. I also asked a question: if they could get eagles to come pick up the two heroes off of the rock as they got surrounded by lava, then why didn't they just get the eagles to fly them to the damn castle or whatever so they could avoided the entire quest of getting there? Of course, one of the people who was watching with me (and had clearly seen the movies several times to the point of memorizing and reciting the lines before they happened in each scene) got extremely offended and said this is such a weak argument that's been brought up numerous times, and the answer was simple: they would have been caught and "shot down" in mid-air. At that point I decided to just let it go. Not worth my time...
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Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Mar. 11 2021 17:32:59
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