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jamesmulholland

 

Posts: 9
Joined: Feb. 24 2020
 

filling cypress tear-out 

Gday all,

Slightly embarrassed to post this fail, but would really appreciate any advice on filling end grain tear-out/holes in cypress ribs. Not quite sure what hole my head was in when I decided to cut INSIDE the tear-out, instead of just getting rid of it completely. But I went ahead anyway, thinking FP will probably fill it. And now...regrets.

Would you give cypress sawdust + shellack a go? I experimented with sawdust and superglue, filling a bit of scrap, but the result was far too dark.

Would you just dig out the rosewood crosspiece and make the channel wider, as I should have in the first place?

Or just own the poor choice and hope that FP will disguise it enough?

Cheers for your feedback!







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2021 12:49:31
 
RobF

Posts: 1112
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: filling cypress tear-out (in reply to jamesmulholland

Those chips look pretty shallow, so filling with a sawdust paste might be the best approach, in this case. If there’s enough depth to the binding on the top and back, then there is a possibility most of the filled chips can sand out and disappear, leaving only a reminder of the two larger chips, or even none at all. Superglue won’t do it for the paste, white glue or hide glue should be used. As you found, CA will darken the dust.

You could try to graft by making tiny scoops with a beading gouge then taking corresponding scoops from a piece of cutoff that would then be glued into the scooped channels, but it’s tiny and awkward work to do when butting against the centre-strip like that. It would be more bother than it’s worth, I think, and might make matters worse, if the chips are shallow enough that they could have been sanded out to start with. I’m not crazy about that option.

Chiselling out the strip and widening the channel could be done, but will be fiddley work to fit the new strip. You could cut a new narrow channel on each side of the existing strip and inlay thin strips of the same wood. This could end up being virtually undetectable, and might be worth considering, but again is fiddley.

I’m going to vote for filling with a sawdust paste made with white glue and then hoping that the lion’s share of the chips will disappear by being sanded out. What will likely remain will be tiny and not very noticeable, at all. Just take care not to work the bindings too thin when looking at them from the top and back. There is an end block supporting the sides in that area, so a bit of thinning there is not going to do any harm. If you don’t like the results then you could always consider widening the channel, but I suspect you’ll be OK and won’t have to take that measure.

Just my thoughts...the polish isn’t going to save you, but solace can be taken in that nobody ever looks there anyways, save other makers, lol.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2021 14:02:41
 
jamesmulholland

 

Posts: 9
Joined: Feb. 24 2020
 

RE: filling cypress tear-out (in reply to RobF

Thanks very much, Rob. That seems like a sound way forward. And a timely reminder - I had begun giving the area behind the end block a good sanding back, as you say, but good thing I didn't thin the bindings out too much.

I'll give it a go next week and see how it turns out. If it works well, I'll post a photo update...if not, I might just hide in a corner!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2021 16:22:49
 
ernandez R

Posts: 484
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: filling cypress tear-out (in reply to jamesmulholland

I always knife and chisel the rib end grain, faster and easier then setting up the noise making chip flyer ;)

Even with a router pre knifing your edge will prevent this. I’ve also been known to case harden the wood with a quick swipe of TB or CA if I’m in a hurry to keep the fibers consolidated, handy trick for anything that gets fiddly.

I’ll echo Rob’s suggestions:
Try white glue and fiber, if it’s ugly knife out two strips, put something fancy in there ;)
Or chisel the whole thing out.

Also, There is a reason a wedge is commonly used there right. Makes it less fiddly and easy to have gapless seams. Make your inlay long then push up until it’s tight.

BTW: my last two flamenco have tear outs on each end of the end binding from the router when I decided I didn’t need to pre-grammal the cut... Just a reminder to Pre cut all end grain... fun times.

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2021 18:54:38
 
jamesmulholland

 

Posts: 9
Joined: Feb. 24 2020
 

RE: filling cypress tear-out (in reply to ernandez R

Interesting, hadn't thought about that explanation for the wedge. I figured it was just a kind of trend, following on from some old master's miscalculation a century or so ago.

Pre-knifing before routing is good advice, I should remember to do that. But here I actually did knife and chisel the rib ends, which makes it an even more bizarre choice - I knifed right there through the middle of the tear-out, because I didn't want the strip to be too wide compared to the back strip. And thought after sanding there wouldn't be much left...so fingers crossed for the white glue and cypress dust.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2021 20:55:08
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