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Of course flamenco is a strong contender - but we all know enough about that already - let's exclude it from this conversation.
I used to be into 'world music' that had a very impressionistic, exotic, different feel to it - at least compared to typical American and British classic rock and pop.
I'm not sure now where I first heard this one, but for whatever reason, it stayed with me as very catchy and very impressionistic. Does anyone recognize the keys or scales going on in this one ? I'm guessing this number will get some polar reactions lol
Posts: 3467
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
quote:
Of course flamenco is a strong contender
Do you include flamenco a part of what is generally considered to be "World Music"? In my opinion, flamenco as "World Music" is a contradiction in terms. In fact, my fear is flamenco as we have known it will eventually disappear for all practical purposes (save for a small niche) and be absorbed into the miasma of "World Music," and we will be the poorer for it. The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
@ escribano: I played electric guitar High-life from Ghana in my twenties in London with former members of Ossibissa. I sooo loved it. I was the only white in the band,and the Ghaneen took so good care of me. An experience I cherish in my heart.
I would go with: - Nusrat Fateh ali Khan (Pakistani Qawal) - Nikhil Bannerjee (Indian Sitarist) - Farid el Atrash (Oud) And an album by the algerian Singer Abdeli called new moon. Always cool to hear.
The thing is that what is world music for us... is classical music for others. :)
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
quote:
Does anyone recognize the keys or scales going on in this one ?
Yes. Bm-A-Bm (B aeolian or natural minor) then Em - F#(7)- Bm. Basically simple minor key. The rhythm is like Romani songs I have jammed on called baso. The dramatic middle section included. Usually they do like balalaika type tremolo picking of chords when it slows like that. Anyway typical gypsy stuff minor key.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
Here is my quick selection from what popped up in my head. Usually stuff from my neighbourhood (same as Saban Bajramovic), I guess its world music but don't really know.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to Filip)
quote:
I guess its world music but don't really know.
Me neither. In French I think the equivalent is "musiques du monde". Then "world music" (in French but using the English words, so "oueurlde musique" ^^) would mean fusion basically.
Anyway, off the top of my head in the fusion mix-everything-in-the-same-bag stuff, I enjoy Radio Tarifa:
I also like Morente's album "Omega":
Music from where I'm from would be stuff like this:
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
Do you include flamenco a part of what is generally considered to be "World Music"? In my opinion, flamenco as "World Music" is a contradiction in terms. In fact, my fear is flamenco as we have known it will eventually disappear for all practical purposes (save for a small niche) and be absorbed into the miasma of "World Music," and we will be the poorer for it. The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back.
depends what you (or the OP, or anyone else) mean by "world music". Seems like can mean folk, traditional or classical music from any part of the world other than western classical or pop/rock, so IMO flamenco fits in fine with that definition. But it can also mean fusions of folk, traditional or classical music from any part of the world mixed with western pop/rock (not so often with western classical). I generally appreciate music from the former definition but don't have much time for the latter.
Posts: 3467
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
depends what you (or the OP, or anyone else) mean by "world music". Seems like can mean folk, traditional or classical music from any part of the world other than western classical or pop/rock, so IMO flamenco fits in fine with that definition. But it can also mean fusions of folk, traditional or classical music from any part of the world mixed with western pop/rock (not so often with western classical). I generally appreciate music from the former definition but don't have much time for the latter.
I would not refer to your first definition, in which flamenco is included, as "World Music." I would call it "Non-Western Music," and I agree that flamenco is a part of the non-Western tradition.
I agree with your second definition as being "World Music" as I have always understood it, i.e., a fusion or mix of non-Western with Western pop, rock, etc. It is that definition that I would hate to see flamenco become entangled with. I don't have much time for it either.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
I would not refer to your first definition, in which flamenco is included, as "World Music."
Have no fear Bill. World music was nothing more than a marketing “bin” created by record stores. Flamenco has outlived the “record store” and thusly there is no longer a need for a marketing bin “label”. World Music as a “thing” is what is almost already dead. Most children would have no clue what Joe was posting about. Streaming services are set up by “related artists” now a days. That means no kid accidentally hears nishfrat Ali Kahn mixed with Astor piazzola Turkish pop and Ottmar Leibert in one session.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen
quote:
World music was nothing more than a marketing “bin” created by record stores.
Exactly right: it was what was left over after everything else had been filed under the standard labels, and they didn’t know where to put it.
There is even an exact date - Jun 29, 1987:
"[..]on June 29 1987, a group of music enthusiasts involved in the running of independent record labels met in a London pub, The Empress of Russia, to discuss how they might market music from around the world. The group - which included DJ Charlie Gillett, Ian Anderson (now editor of fRoots magazine), record producer Joe Boyd and Iain Scott - decided on a joint campaign to put “world-music” boxes in record stores to promote their products. This would cost just £3,500, financed by 11 indie record labels."
Here's their first-hand recounting and rethinking, in 2004, of the event:
Posts: 3446
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
There is even an exact date - Jun 23, 1987:
"[..]on June 29 1987, a group of music enthusiasts involved in the running of independent record labels met in a London pub, The Empress of Russia, to discuss how they might market music from around the world. The group - which included DJ Charlie Gillett, Ian Anderson (now editor of fRoots magazine), record producer Joe Boyd and Iain Scott - decided on a joint campaign to put “world-music” boxes in record stores to promote their products. This would cost just £3,500, financed by 11 indie record labels."
The term itself did exist in academic circles, coined apparently in 1962 the early 1960s by ethnomusicologist Robert E. Brown.
From personal experience there were "world music" bins in record stores in Austin, Baton Rouge, Hollywood, Berkeley, New York, and London in the late 1960s. The big Virgin Records in Paris had one, labeled in English, in the mid-1970s.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to Ricardo)
Ah, world music, how does that old saw go, it's what you say when you don't want to get kicked out of the party and not get any more coke. Insert the phrase New Wave or what ever accordingly.
A number of years ago I was intrigued by the voice of a singer used in the soundtrack for the movie 300, it was that homo-erotic graphic novel retelling of the battle of Thermopalie that Jack Snider put together, I preferred his Sucker Punch but that's a different story for another time...
I did some homework a al Google-fu and discovered that Azam Ali was the magical voice behind the music and she also sang in a "world music" group called Niyaz. Both her solo works and the band are worth a listen. And yes both are classified WM.
Go back half a century, about time I was born, my mother purchased a Harry Belafonte/Nana Mouskouri album and feel like I was weened listening to the Greek infused tones. Figure if one was to classify this coupling world music would describe it as well as any other label: Harry's Carib and Nana's Greek.
Some good selections up thread. Listened to Radio Tarifa most of the afternoon and played along to some of the songs, vary Phrygian dominant.(?)
Of course typing this to Niyaz...
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
From personal experience there were "world music" bins in record stores in Austin, Baton Rouge, Hollywood, Berkeley, New York, and London in the late 1960s. The big Virgin Records in Paris had one, labeled in English, in the mid-1970s.
Hah. Then I wonder if that article was somehow limited to a UK-centric context without saying so (and despite claiming otherwise).
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
Well, The thing is that with a world that is connecting itself more and more, music of all countries beeing accessible without travelling, new mixes emerged. and new words or categories have to be created. But as for myself I don't care so much for labels. It's sounds good and interesting for me...or not. But it's certainly a very western centric concept, that needs to be changed with times, as it does not reflect well the sate of the music - certainly important for music historians. It makes me think about the term "universal". When you see something, like a psychological trait on humans beeings all over the planet, they called that universal, as opposed to cultural. That has always make me laugh. Yeah? in the whole universe?
By the way, I kind of enjoy the album by Howe Gelb, called Alegria. Nice americana/rock folck mixed with flamenco guitars.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
“music most Americans and a few Europeans have never heard of”.
Well - bingo, but that name was too long : ) The question is raised then, with SO many countries and cultures on the globe, and with SO much music produced and avaliable currently and years ago - how can you discover the music from around the word that appeals to you ?
You could probably spend years just sampling and looking for it. I think the "World Bin" was a great idea that introduced me to many musical cultures and traditions I never would have found.
How else could one discover "exotic" (subjective to the listener and their country and culture of course - someone rightly said one's world music is another's local pop music, or something similar) music from around the world they've never heard before ? Family and friends of different cultures is one way - search terms on Google is a new way - but so much garbage to sift through. Movie soundtracks is another way - I loved the soundtrack put together by Peter Gabriel's "Passion", and the influences it drew from (put together for that controversial movie, "The Last Temptation of Christ".
I tried here in the forum - ask friends on the forum that have similar musical tastes. That's probably one of the fastest ways, and then look at who inspired the artists you discover, and those artists favorites. And many of you responded with great world artists that are new to me.
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
I have always really enjoyed this rendition of Piazzolla's Primavera Portena
I use to play Baltazar's transcription of this piece but for me Piazzolla is like a lot of Bach music - if I don't keep up with it with it I will lose it fairly quickly. The mind is a strange thing.
Posts: 3467
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
This is something we don't want to read on a flamenco forum. Again, without those Barbarians flamenco wouldn't have existed. Trump could have said it about Mexicans if he had a wall and were still a president.
"We don't want to read on a flamenco forum," Devilhand?
You are referring to my previous comment in which I stated, "My fear is flamenco as we have known it will eventually disappear for all practical purposes (save for a small niche) and be absorbed into the miasma of "World Music," and we will be the poorer for it. The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back."
What Barbarians was flamenco dependent upon for its existence? And what on earth do Trump, Mexicans, and the wall have to do with my comment?
It appears that you have completely misunderstood my comment and reached your own conclusion. One may agree or disagree with my comment, but I think anyone capable of reading comprehension would know that by "Barbarians" I meant those who would facilitate the absorption of flamenco into so-called "World Music" as I understand it, i.e., a fusion or mix of non-Western with Western pop, rock, etc.
Again, one may agree or disagree with my view of "World Music" and whether or not flamenco is likely to be absorbed by it, but I cannot see how anyone would suggest that I was speaking of some nexus between Barbarians and flamenco, much less about Trump, Mexicans, and the wall. What next, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Q-anon? 9/11 was an inside job? The school shootings were a false-flag operation?
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
What Barbarians was flamenco dependent upon for its existence? And what on earth do Trump, Mexicans, and the wall have to do with my comment?
I thought you knew about history. If you knew about it well you wouldn't have used this word no matter in what context. Berbers mean Barbarians. The meaning and usage of this word are more than that.
Posts: 3467
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
I thought you knew about history. If you knew about it well you wouldn't have used this word no matter in what context.
I know exactly what the term "Barbarian" has meant throughout history, from the Ancient Greeks, to the Romans, to its use today as a metaphor or exaggeration to describe someone perceived as less cultured. And I meant it exactly as it is meant (a figure of speech) in describing those who may facilitate flamenco's absorption into so'called "World Music."
It is you, Devilhand, who needs to improve your reading comprehension in order to place words in context, particularly a figure of speech such as "Barbarian." With your risible attempt to extrapolate my statement as including "Barbarians" who are responsible for flamenco, and in your fevered imagination equating it with Trump, Mexicans, and the wall, you demonstrate an inability to understand and comprehend what is clearly being used as a figure of speech for effect.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
My favorite world music shakti w. Mclaughlin
Shabash, Ricardoji!
The original Shakti is a perpetual contender for my favorite music. Their live performances are phenomenal, and there's some very beautiful stuff in their studio work too:
I never saw them, but some time in the 90s I was fortunate to attend a performance given by Zakir, Vikku and the great Trichy Sankaran. North-South rhythmic bliss!
RE: World Music - share some favorit... (in reply to joevidetto)
Tablas have one of the coolest percussion sounds in my book - easy on the ears, percussive, and of course the rhythms of India are some of the most sophisticated, most interesting, and plain old "cool". In fact, when it's done right - tablas really add to flamenco. I think there is a Vicente song on the first album - Maestro Sanlucar, where the intro has tasteful tablas.
Zakir Hussain is I think, the PDL of the tablas - if not, please share a few other names with me. I'm not sure what his best works are, I have a solo album where this song I really liked.