RE: Peg head issues

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RE: Peg head issues

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Johnc

Posts: 114
Joined: Apr. 16 2011
From: UK

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

what do the pegheds actually look like?

I just had a quick look online and only found a few pics, but they look pretty much like the Wittners to me

the wittners have the gearing in the top, and the pegheds have the gearing in the shaft, this means the wittners are a lot more chubby looking (i think so anyway)
also the wittners have a "clicky" action. whereas the pegheds are smooth and the function more like normal pegs, you can push/pull them to tighten/loosen the internal brake mechanism.

quote:

and btw the pic in my post further back up the thread of the wooden pegs and Wittner pegs together was taken from about 12 inches/30cm, and they don't look too different to me, apart fromt he shiny shaft of the wooden pegs where I slavered on HILLS PEG DOPE every freakin time I changed strings!

this is pretty much how i broke my pegs, they worked flawlessly initially, but i put on too much dope everytime, i used the "Boetels wirbelsafte" (or something!) that was recomended by Anders, but i had no experience of using these so..

John

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 12:07:53

Johnc

Posts: 114
Joined: Apr. 16 2011
From: UK

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argaith

John,

Did you have to pay duty as well? I wasn't expecting that! How much was that if you don't me asking?

A

Ah sorry I can't recall exactly, but its in the region of 20%.

John

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 12:18:50

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

Did you have to pay duty as well? I wasn't expecting that! How much was that if you don't me asking?

if you spend more than £15 (including postage) outside of EU you have to pay VAT on import, and Post Office handling/admin charge. if you buy stuff worth £135 or more you also have to pay duty. info on govt website here

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

quote:

Wittner seems to have their logo on the shaft or at the bottom of the grip which I don't like (can you please confirm since you already have them).

Also the grip seems to show a seam between the two halves which makes it look a bit plasticy in my opinion. I'm only judging by the photos that I can see on the web; obviously you know better since you already have them.

I never noticed a logo, but you're right there is a tiny faint logo. I can't even see it without reading glasses, and even then I have to look close in the right light. It is kind of a slighly raised (looks about the height of a hair) embossed logo about 2mm wide at the top of the shaft. I can't see any seam down the length of the shaft at all. There are some slightly raised lines at the bottom of the shaft, I guess to grip in the hole. I will take and upload some pics later to show you exactly.

would be good to see clear photos of the wittners and pegheds together to compare.

I did consider pegheds but read that there were some problems with the mechanism failing - anecdotal of course. Also the pegheds seemed to have more complicated installation involving glueing them in - the wittners just push in. And with import charges I reckoned the pegheds would work out about twice the cost so I went with the wittners.

it could be i have a higher threshold of plasticky-ness tolerance!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 13:32:45

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Johnc)

quote:

the wittners have the gearing in the top, and the pegheds have the gearing in the shaft, this means the wittners are a lot more chubby looking (i think so anyway)
also the wittners have a "clicky" action. whereas the pegheds are smooth and the function more like normal pegs, you can push/pull them to tighten/loosen the internal brake mechanism.

they look about the same to me from the pics i have seen - it would be good to see photos of the two brands side by side to compare. They certainly look fine to me on the guitar, I have never thought they looked "chubby" - not that i'm that bothered about the visual aesthetics.

the wittners are not really clicky, well they maybe are, but it's a very, very faint, soft sort of click! I didn't even notice it for quite a while after I had them and it never bothers me.

quote:

this is pretty much how i broke my pegs, they worked flawlessly initially, but i put on too much dope everytime, i used the "Boetels wirbelsafte" (or something!) that was recomended by Anders, but i had no experience of using these so..

I didn't break the wooden pegs, as you can see from the picture further up the thread, they are all intact. I was just trying to make the point that I had used the proper peg dope stuff.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 13:42:41

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to RobJe)

quote:

There are rosewood faceplates on the front and back of the head

I had the same on my Jose Lopez Bellido. Still feel sorry that I sold that guitar. Looks beautiful.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 19:56:28

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Johnc)

quote:

There are rosewood faceplates on the front and back of the head

I had too a Jose' Lopez Bellido with that feature: It's a very good idea as rosewood is much more stiff than cedrela and the pegs fit more securely.
I too repent to have given away that Bellido, even though I still have a '74 Bellido with conventional tuners.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 20:01:34

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

Wittner seems to have their logo on the shaft or at the bottom of the grip which I don't like (can you please confirm since you already have them).

Also the grip seems to show a seam between the two halves which makes it look a bit plasticy in my opinion. I'm only judging by the photos that I can see on the web; obviously you know better since you already have them.

some pics of a Wittner peg. Taken with i-phone from about 8 inches/20cm. I took one of the peg with the logo, then turned it over and took a pic of the back. Then I rotated the shaft 90 degrees and took another pic. Finally I turned the peg over again and took a fourth pic. So you can see the shaft from 4 sides. Can you spot the logo?!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 21:09:04

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to mark indigo)

sorry, pics are too big, so need another post for last 2

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2020 21:10:24

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Johnc)

quote:

HILLS PEG DOPE every freakin time I changed strings!

this is pretty much how i broke my pegs, they worked flawlessly initially, but i put on too much dope everytime, i used the "Boetels wirbelsafte" (or something!) that was recomended by Anders, but i had no experience of using these so..

John

It’s really unlikely you broke your pegs due to too much peg dope. There was some condition or combination of conditions like the peg changed shape in cross section, or the weather changed and something swelled up, etc. or the user forced the peg by jamming it into its hole and this action contributed to a distortion in the hole which eventually traps the peg.

Wood pegs are usually Ebony or rosewood, both woods can shrink a bit more even after they are seasoned, ebony fingerboards can shrink a tiny bit from side to side and that allows the frets to poke out a fraction of a mm and be irritating. Wood pegs can shrink the same way even after you’re pretty confident they are seasoned. It just means they need to be micro adjusted by a professional with the skill to shave the peg true without taking very much material off the peg.

The OP asked what will remedy slipping pegs, rather than suggest a handful of stop gad measures, the second person to reply Ehernandez said try getting some violin oeg dope. It’s still the best product to use for pegs on a guitar, which are precisely pegs made for the viola.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2020 1:06:42

Johnc

Posts: 114
Joined: Apr. 16 2011
From: UK

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

It’s really unlikely you broke your pegs due to too much peg dope. There was some condition or combination of conditions like the peg changed shape in cross section, or the weather changed and something swelled up, etc. or the user forced the peg by jamming it into its hole and this action contributed to a distortion in the hole which eventually traps the peg.

Wood pegs are usually Ebony or rosewood, both woods can shrink a bit more even after they are seasoned, ebony fingerboards can shrink a tiny bit from side to side and that allows the frets to poke out a fraction of a mm and be irritating. Wood pegs can shrink the same way even after you’re pretty confident they are seasoned. It just means they need to be micro adjusted by a professional with the skill to shave the peg true without taking very much material off the peg.

The OP asked what will remedy slipping pegs, rather than suggest a handful of stop gad measures, the second person to reply Ehernandez said try getting some violin oeg dope. It’s still the best product to use for pegs on a guitar, which are precisely pegs made for the viola.

Thanks Stephen

the dope looked to me like it was wax based, because there was too much on the peg, when it was warm it would just not hold the peg, even tho they were really difficult to turn, they would just slowly detune, and of course i just tried to push them in more. As soon as the temperature dropped a couple of degrees they would be then be very difficult to move. It was ok in the winter, but as soon as we started getting warmer days they would just keep slipping again. Eventually one of the pegs started to split, thats when i ordered the pegheds, and they’ve been far easier for a clumsy oaf like me to use :)

John

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2020 15:32:20

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to mark indigo)

Hi Mark,

Thanks for going to trouble of taking a peg out and taking pics and sending; I really appreciate it.

Now I'm having a second thought about Wittner taking into account the practical matters around Peghed such as the price, shipping cost, VAT, installation, etc. Peghed's will cost me quite a bit. Thomann are selling Wittner for £139; free shipping to the UK and last time I bought something from them I didn't have to pay VAT either.

Thanks again my friend.
A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2020 8:20:52

Johnc

Posts: 114
Joined: Apr. 16 2011
From: UK

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argaith

Hi Mark,

Thanks for going to trouble of taking a peg out and taking pics and sending; I really appreciate it.

Now I'm having a second thought about Wittner taking into account the practical matters around Peghed such as the price, shipping cost, VAT, installation, etc. Peghed's will cost me quite a bit. Thomann are selling Wittner for £139; free shipping to the UK and last time I bought something from them I didn't have to pay VAT either.

Thanks again my friend.
A

as long as you buy them before the end of the year, EU vat is already paid. after that who knows!

good luck

John

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2020 8:23:44

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

Hi Mark,

Thanks for going to trouble of taking a peg out and taking pics and sending; I really appreciate it.

Now I'm having a second thought about Wittner taking into account the practical matters around Peghed such as the price, shipping cost, VAT, installation, etc. Peghed's will cost me quite a bit. Thomann are selling Wittner for £139; free shipping to the UK and last time I bought something from them I didn't have to pay VAT either.

Thanks again my friend.
A

You're welcome

. I hope you get something you are happy with either way. Another thought is that as Stephen Eden has installed both types you could ask his opinion as well as a quote for installation. The price for the Wittners on Thomann is the price you pay, but as as John says, next year we don't know what the situation will be buying stuff from the EU, we might end up paying import duty/VAT/trade war tariffs etc. etc.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2020 21:33:22

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

did you get your pegs sorted out?

I just found that elflamencovive shop in Madrid have both the Wittner pegs and the Pegheds from the US on their site. The Wittner pegs are a few Euros more than Thomann, but if you buy Pegheds from Spain they have already dealt with the US import charges for you.... as long as you order before January, after that who knows what "deal or no deal" we will have with the EU...

https://www.elflamencovive.com/spanish/clavijas-pegheds-con-maquinaria-interna-modelo-945d.html

https://www.elflamencovive.com/spanish/clavijas-wittner-fine-tuning-peg-flamenco.html

also spotted Wittners for sale in UK https://www.thestringzone.co.uk/wittner-finetune-peg-for-flamenco-guitar

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2020 20:13:47

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to mark indigo)

Hi Mark,

Yes I did. I will write back later about the whole experience and some photos. I don't have the photos on this computer.

A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2020 11:33:59

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to mark indigo)

Right.
As I realised that the Pegheds would cost me a lot (the actual price of the pegs+shipping costs+customs) and on Mark's recommendation I went for the Wittner pegs. I bought them from Thomman that means free shipment and no customs.

I'll attach photos of a Wittner peg next to the actual wooden peg.
The Wittners are 5mm shorter than the wooden pegs. They also weigh 13g as opposed to the wooden pegs which weigh only 7g. So another 36g added to my very light guitar:(
They are also a bit chubbier than the wooden pegs hence quite a bit of reaming involved.
I also don't like the Wittner logo on the pegs but realistically how often you look at them?

I bought a reamer on eBay and it took me around an hour to ream the wholes only because I did it very slowly slowly.

Verdict: in terms of aesthetics, they are no match to the original wooden pegs ( I miss them a bit). However, from the practical point of view, they work a magic and fine tuning the guitar is so fast and easy and this is where I don't miss the wooden pegs :)

Here's photos of the Wittners on the guitar:

I haven't seen Pegheds in flesh so I can't make a comparison .

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2020 19:12:06

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Peg head issues (in reply to Argaith)

your pics are much better than mine were - you even managed to get a pic showing the logo on the pegs (which I hadn't even noticed until you mentioned it)!

Glad you like them, at least for tuning, just don't look at them too much