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Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz   You are logged in as Guest
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johnnefastis

Posts: 500
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz 

So I am nerding out on the precise fingering for the begining of Fuente y Caudal.

So many ways it could be played and I can't find a video of Paco playing it. So time for a quiz

Opening nasty F# chord.... only one way to really do that... Index finger on F# right ?

Next up the slide or ligado down to F is it:

A) Ligado
B) Slide

Then there G chord with the F# in the top. Is the G bass note played with:

A) The middle finger
B) Or ring finger

Then we get an F# played on the D string is it played with

A) The pinky
B) The ring finger

Sorry no prizes as I don't know the answers. But here are a few different approaches.



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 9 2020 22:46:52
 
kitarist

Posts: 1083
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to johnnefastis

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis
Opening nasty F# chord.... only one way to really do that... Index finger on F# right ?


There are two F# - do you mean string 1 F#? If so, I have always done it with 2nd finger (first finger on string 6 F#, fingers 3 and 4 are clear). Didn't even occur to me that others are doing the reverse for the two F#, which does seem easier if no capo, but then it gets more complicated for the slurs next. But with capo at 3 the way I do it is easy too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis
Next up the slide or ligado down to F is it:

A) Ligado
B) Slide


Slur (ligado) - pull-off then hammer-on. Because my 2nd finger is already on the string 1 F#, for me it is simply LH 2-1-2 for that. To do the same but in the reverse configuration, it is possible to put the 2nd finger in place while the first finger is pressing on the 2nd fret that high F# without disturbing it (what happens outside the vibrating string length stays outside ). It just seems a bit more complicated to me but it's doable and then you do fingering as above for the slurs.

Oh , I see why you want to do a slide back and forth - because your 1st finger is on the F# there. But it does not sound to me on the recording like a back-and-forth single finger slide, sounds more defined.

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis
Then there G chord with the F# in the top. Is the G bass note played with:

A) The middle finger
B) Or ring finger


3rd finger (ring)


quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis
Then we get an F# played on the D string is it played with

A) The pinky
B) The ring finger


4th finger (pinky). The rest are finger 1 on C# on B string, hammer-on with 2nd finger and back for that C#-D-C# etc passage. This 4th finger on D string 4th fret is also an anchor to transition back to the original F# chord that's next - it stays where it is (measures 4-5).

Another anchor situation occurs later on (visible below, last two measures) with the 2nd finger on C# on B string - it slides silently one fret over to D on the same string, and the shape in that last measure 8 is completed by placing 1st finger on B on A string, and 3rd on F# on D string (I guess that could be 4th finger instead but I had my 4th on G string on Bb just before that, so I used 3rd finger here).

That 2nd finger continues being an anchor for the next chord shape - A7 - by now silently sliding back to C# on B string, and 1st goes on B on A string at the beginning of measure 9 (not shown).

Here I took a picture of the first two bars form my book with the notes I've made:



This is just what I do; I'd be curious to know what more experienced players would advise you.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 1:47:03
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 500
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to johnnefastis

Thanks for your detailed answer Konstantine.

Sorry messed up that first bit. I meant index on top (high) F# thats interesting you do it the other way. I think my fingers would struggle with your position there. Thats why I think it might be a slide down to F and the the F# played with the middle finger after to be in the right position for the next chord. (like the player does in the first video).

After that I think I am with you..... Interested in some other points of view because as I mentioned everyone covering it plays it differently and I would love to know how paco did it. Its so beautifully clean.

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 10:41:34
 
kitarist

Posts: 1083
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to johnnefastis

BTW John, you've seen these two videos, right? It is true that the chord with high F# is not played (or not visible if it is) in either of them, but you can glance at a lot of other fingerings Paco used. Both videos from 1974, one from France, the other Barcelona concerts:





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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 17:54:35
 
Piwin

Posts: 3000
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to kitarist

quote:

If so, I have always done it with 2nd finger


You weirdo!

If that's how it is, then I'm doing it with the thumb. 6th string index, 5th middle, 4th ring, 3rd open, 2nd open, 1st with the thumb over the top of the neck.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 18:42:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12363
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to kitarist

quote:

Didn't even occur to me that others are doing the reverse for the two F#, which does seem easier if no capo, but then it gets more complicated for the slurs next.


It has to be first finger if you want the bass note to keep ringing under the slide (slur) 2-1-2 done only with index slide. (Next G bass has to be 2nd finger)

Otherwise, if you don’t let the chord ring or bass note (like either player in first post) when you play the slur then it doesn’t matter at all.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 21:22:26
 
kitarist

Posts: 1083
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

It has to be first finger if you want the bass note to keep ringing under the slide (slur) 2-1-2 done only with index slide.


Oh yeah! hahah now this seems obvious.

But does PdL hold the bass note over? Also is it really a single-finger slide back and forth? It sounds more 'defined' to my ears than what a sound from a slide produces. What do you think?

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 22:08:36
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 500
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to johnnefastis

Thanks for all these replies... Lots of useful stuff. I have seen those vids Konstantin but never the intro as recorded.

A guitarist friend from Algeciras who is a Paco freak told me 'no slide' earlier. So now confused... but listening closely to the recording I can't hear bass notes ringing out particularly. But its so clean there can't be much hand movement either.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 10 2020 23:03:44
 
Piwin

Posts: 3000
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to kitarist

quote:

It sounds more 'defined' to my ears


Me too. Maybe there's a right-hand stroke on the second F sharp?

I just play it with index and middle finger and don't bother with keeping the bass ringing. I did try it yesterday though, and having that "smooth" bass sequence felt better. (in the sense that it actually felt better on the left-hand than how I had been doing it). I can't do the F sharp chord the way you're doing it though. ^^

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2020 4:31:47
 
kitarist

Posts: 1083
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Maybe there's a right-hand stroke on the second F sharp?


Now that you point it out, I listened at half speed and sure seems like it can't just be a hammer-on back to F#; it is so crisp. But it's PdL, so who knows. When I try it that way, the second F# comes out too much and spoils the impression of the 2-1-2 being just a non-accented buildup to the rolled chord accent next.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2020 18:07:11
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 500
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: Intro to Fuente y Caudal quiz (in reply to johnnefastis

quote:

But it's PdL, so who knows.


The F# definetely played twice I guess we will never know whether he slid his index back to the F though. But you can also also hear a fretboad squeak just before so I think he does do a pull off to the F not a slide.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2020 22:40:42
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